Gaming, Trust with Blockchain and Crypto as legal tender

Keri Norley  On this episode of the wealth Alchemist podcast. I have Miggy Cellis on the show. He is an OG in the crypto space and has had and has been using it for 10 years. On this episode, we talk about gaming and NFT's and how that works within the crypto space. We actually talk about how blockchain creates trust, how he has lived off of crypto for years, how states can utilize adoption of crypto as legal tender, and what that can mean in their ability to reduce taxes. Boom, you're gonna hear about this one. It's at the end of the show, and so much more. This is a very juicy conversation with a guy who knows a lot about this space from living in it being an eating and breathing it. So please enjoy the show. Hello, and welcome to this episode of the wealth Alchemist podcast. My name is Keri Norley. I am your host of the show. And today I have Miguel Selous, otherwise known as Miggy or Mickey crypto. He is the founder of cryptic crypto cryptic spelled with a K KR ypt. I see crypto. He is an NFT, strategist and community developer. He has 10 years of experience in community building and management, market research, trading, buying and selling cryptocurrencies and NFT creation, project management. And he's passionately focused on education, Blockchain gaming and access to web three, to strengthen our global communities. I met Miggy through a mutual friend, Elise Sam, who is also on this podcast, you definitely want to go listen to her show as well there. She's got an amazing show on here as well. And we met through her in the WhatsApp group. And then we saw each other I actually I don't even think we physically like I think we saw each other in passing. When you're at Miami crypto experience. He was talking about gaming there. And I was talking about fi and it took us until last week, so like three months later to actually have a conversation. And our conversation was supposed to be for an hour, I think two and a half hours later, like I was like, Okay, we have to stop and just hit record on this conversation because it's so damn good. And I'm so excited to have you on the show, because maybe, honestly, is a wealth of information. He has a living, breathing experience of what it is to be in the crypto space living on crypto. And it is a super pleasure and honor to have you on the show. But you welcome.  

Miggy Cellis  Thanks. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Now it's been crazy been able to go to these events and be able to at least be in the same space as people like us. So I appreciate you having me on.  

Keri Norley  It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. And I'm really excited actually because Mickey is part of definitely mean he says here that he's a community developer. He's definitely part of some really great communities in the crypto space. And he's been in this for a while and so I'm really excited to have you on like first like to start off with like, the overall conversation today. For you guys who are listening as you understand me definitely has, like, I'm curious to hear more about, you know, everything that you've created and where you're at and everything. But he's definitely playing more in that like the NFT Metaverse gaming space and creating communities around that so I'm excited to have a conversation with you about that. But also like he's been in this for a while so we're gonna actually I have some questions around adoption that's happening. The government we have some we're gonna end up I'm sure down a really amazing rabbit hole and you're definitely want to grab a cup of tea and listen into this one. So I'm curious to start off with me. How did you find your way into crypto in the first place?  

Miggy Cellis  Oh, man, that's usually definitely where the rabbit hole begins. Honestly, I don't really remember what it was it actually like kind of got me involved. It was either a friend or something that I saw but I just remember hearing about it. You know, hearing about Bitcoin mustard, I guess was like really my first introduction has, I'm pretty sure a lot of people is the same, you know, Blockchain came out and then Bitcoin came from it. And so when I heard about it, you know, I just liked the idea and the concept of having this open ledger source system, the transparency aspect of it, and the fact that like, as long as you were willing to learn and actively participate, that, you know, anybody could buy it, you know, like, if I could find it, and I can buy it, and I could do stuff with it, then it was a whole different game changing, you know, so I did that, you know, for quite a bit just going around the space trying to find everything with Bitcoin in it. But that was pretty much my first intro was like in 2012. I was living in Dayton, Ohio, at the time, just moved out of Texas for the first time of my life in was out, you know, in a living with my daughter and her mom. And yeah, I don't even know it. Just one day Bitcoin came around, and like, that's all I've known since.  

Keri Norley  Wow. Wow. So on that, like one of the things that's curious, because a lot of people don't think that this can be lived off of, right, we've had one other person on the show. Oh, I'm gonna remember and eventually who it was, it was on the show was talking about living off of it, but go back earlier in the show. And there was but you know, it's, it's a beautiful thing to hear these stories, because so many people think it's some like crazy investing scheme, or it's a load of shit, or, you know, like all of you and I hear all the time around the theories that people think that this is such a bad place to be. And yes, and and the questions that people have, well, how do I actually spend it, it's some crazy internet money that isn't really real. But yeah, me lives off of it. So tell us how that works for you. Like, I know, it's really simple and yours in my mind, but for those listening,  

Miggy Cellis  I mean, generally, the ideas is, is fairly simple, you know, no different than the concept of having an online bank account, you know, accessing it, and then being able to transfer the funds or use it directly. So, for a lot of the years, even though I've been bought into a lot of crypto, like it was really more or less of an investment for me, as much as it was just an opportunity to generate more income and functionally use it. So basically, everything that I've ever bought over the last 10 years, like I've sold out of, because anytime I needed money, you know, for stuff, whether you know, car issues, or to pay my rent and pay for bills, you know, I could always swap out of crypto and by the means of using exchanges. Having to use intermediaries like local Bitcoins, escrow services, I did stuff on eBay as well, you know, just finding applications that were out there for crypto. And even then, like, there wasn't, I'm sorry, even now, like, there isn't a lot, then there was like, even less, and so people were doing it. And like I knew there were people doing this, we were making money off it somehow. So I just found my way in, you know, found all the different ways that I could get it from Bitcoin, to Fiat and then Fiat to Bitcoin. And I did that over the last several years. And now sort of doing the same thing with NFT's have obviously gone full time for the first time, in 10 years, last April, where majority of my income is coming from being paid for consulting or advising or selling NFT's or just doing what I do you know, myself, and I'm working on continuing that this year. So  

Keri Norley  that's amazing. That's amazing, huge congrats. I don't remember the name of the other person. Logan Fulcher, he's in one of the rooms so go and check him out as well. Um, yeah, he's he's a he's a cool one too. Okay, so talking about let's talk a bit as you've already brought up NFT's and gaming and things like this. Talk about because we haven't actually had a conversation here around gaming. So can you share, like what's happening in the gaming industry? How NFT's are playing a part of it? How this is like what you know, you know, go I'm gonna leave you.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, so I mean, a lot of people's first introduction to NFT's is mostly through just the art, collectibles, you know, seeing these animations or gifts or stills, whatever, and buying them. But what a lot of people don't know is that, you know, games are being developed to support an MTS. Much like, you know, our games are built to support individual assets like skins and in game currencies and things like that. So people have found a way to tokenize this using the blockchain by putting these games using their transactions to be on the blockchain, having NFT's embedded with them to be ownable assets, you know, like fortnight skins like if you were actually buy it and still have the ability to sell it or trade it and have, you know, retained its value or had more value over time, as basically what they've done with NFT's you know, they've just monetize things that were already there, put them on a ledger system and tokenize them with cryptocurrency.  

Keri Norley  So she's already,  

Miggy Cellis  no no, not for now just an example because they have skins, but you buy them and you don't get to keep them. I mean, you get to keep them and you can't do anything with them, you know, you can't sell them, you can't trade them.  

Keri Norley  Right. So basically, basically what you're saying is that there's already like, this is the thing that I really love about the concept of what's happening in this space. We already have games like fortnight, or Minecraft, like if I like in Minecraft, right? They're building, they're building things within I don't play the game my kids do. And they go and they build these things, they build the communities and then the house and they need the thing and they you know, so when you buy it as an NFT like this, like in Minecraft, as it is now or as fortnight I don't know anything about fortnight, I can't stand it. But as, as we look at all these places there is there's already being money poured into it, like, I know, my kids, like, I'm gonna have 20 bucks for this now I'm gonna have this, and money is already getting poured into it. But the person who's winning the money getting poured into it is not anyone who's playing the game is the person who owns the game. And the thing that I love about what's happening right now in the crypto space is that instead of the people who own the games, or who run the games, we're giving them 20 bucks every month or whatever it is. It's you and me. And every you know, any human beings who can figure out how to get into these games. Like literally as we talk I actually have a game currently running making me money.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, I mean, everybody gets to make money. Yeah, it's awesome.  

Keri Norley  Right? And so this is the difference being that instead of the the companies making the money that we can and then so now instead of building out, you know, a space on Minecraft that Minecraft now holds that money. I could go and buy and I mean, I can see this is what's happening. I don't know. And I actually think isn't it  

Miggy Cellis  there's a game on Minecraft actually, I just started playing it. No, it's well the one that I'm playing that I've been a part of. It's called uplift it's on the wax blockchain it's just a Sir They use a server on Minecraft but it's it's there's put on the blockchain. Ah, cool. And you get Yeah, you can earn their token called uplift them or, or wax you buy you have to buy a land or rail plot to get in the game to get access to it. But once you get the access to the login, you start earning passive income just for having the land. So if you build and people use it, or you bust blocks and play, you know, you there's a bunch of opportunities to make to earn crypto or to mine it, you know, at least we're playing the game. So right and then oh, it's awesome. Yeah.  

Keri Norley  Right. That's the point. Like instead of now Minecraft having it, you can go in and you can buy. So this is what people would talk about. And you can correct me if I'm wrong when we start to look in the metaverse, right, and people are buying the blocks of land and they're gonna put their houses on it. And like we now have, you know, companies like Nike and Adidas and all these companies are starting to trademark because your character that you're going to buy that your avatar will now be able to have these things that are trademarked within there, you're going to be able to buy it close and then you can sell it instead of it just being something that's like some something that you give to the Minecraft companies or whatever it is that you're you're doing. You're building your almost like a portfolio online within your games. And those are all sellable assets. And so now, you can actually, like I look at it, like it's like, for people who are into it, it's an investment, right if you do this properly, and it's kind of like to me like a collector, right? Like somebody might collect like a train train sets. Right. Right. Yeah. And I mean, back in the day,  

Miggy Cellis  right? I think I still have a train set somewhere. Right?  

Keri Norley  We still have our I mean, it's not collectors we still box away I think. Um, but or, you know, even like baseball cards or whatever, all these types of collectors things that we have, we can now have online, we don't carry them with us anymore. Hello, forgetting Leah. Right. And we have these collections that we can then Ansel later if you're done with the thing, or you want to be like, oh, I want to try new character, I want to try new shoes or whatever. And you can Ansel these things. And so I think that is such an interesting piece of what is going on in the world.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, it's been great and and now they have you know, basic, you know, defi protocols being built into these games and passive income being generated and you know, staking opportunities and stuff like that. So, in addition to the gameplay, you know, they they've definitely picking it up a notch. So, it'll definitely be a good thing to see, you know, all these other companies start peeking their interest because you know, it's gonna be competitive to their gameplay. Once more games started to come out that are a little bit more on par with like fortnight, and, you know, Call of Duty which games aren't coming out like that already. They're working on them. So it's just a matter of time really.  

Keri Norley  Amazing. We have my mentor. If I told you about this, Ross gar, he has created a new community synced out. And this year they're talking about gamifying. So it'll be it's a down that's all about decentralized finance, but creating volts, so they're already in or they're in beta testing. And so we've got volts where you are in a defy protocol and they're working on like, it's an easy onboard for people because as you know, d phi is not necessarily an easy onboard for most people. Yeah, I understand it. It's not easy. And so they're like, how can we make this simple and it's got an affiliate program with it. And they're going to gamify it. It's like everything it's one of us could have dreamt up that we're like, oh my god, this is like heaven for us to share. Yeah, it's coming. So I'll have to keep you posted on that because sync down and they're working. I know. I'll have to introduce you to Atlas and I have to get Atlas on here. He's another game, another game guy. He's in the Cinco community. He's brilliant gamifying stuff. And so he's working on their gamifying of that. So this is how all of these and this is how we see all of these components. If you have been listening to my podcast for long enough. You've heard me talk about Defy. You've heard me now talk about the metaverse, you've heard me talk about crypto in general. And so now we can start to see how all of these things that people would say stack, right. We can have tech stacks, where they all stack together and come together to be a part of each other. And I think it's so so so brilliant. So what are your thoughts on like, how this is all gonna look moving forward in the metaverse like, I know you're in the metaverse project. So tell us a little bit like what that looks like. And what's the future of this? What does that look like for you guys? Um, well, what's the name of the project that Metaverse well?  

Miggy Cellis  The main one that I'm in so a lot of people mainly know about, like the different basic games that are being built and created like sandbox and stuff. But um, I just joined a company or a project called blockchain Valley virtual that they built a Metaverse on Unreal Engine. So they have really high quality graphics and movement, you know, all their articulation everything. You know, you weren't in like the metaverse game. No. But they also are building a city in Sofia, Bulgaria. That's going to be a one to one. Pairing to the metaverse. Wow. So there's selling villas and stuff in there now. They have all the neighborhoods set up and basically, you know, it's gonna be like an open world Metaverse where you can go to shops, you can buy stuff, you can interact with neighbors, you can go there houses, you can drive cars, you can, you know, have clothing, like you said, have outfits have different things. But also, there's opportunities to have that replicated in the city as well. Because all the main things are going to be built that are in the metaverse will be in the city, even down to where they have this. These things set up for like NFT's for trees, that you'll be able to watch grow in the metaverse as well, as it'll be, you know, it's staged in real life. And they have something that will it's like real real time data. So if it's constantly updating, and, you know, keeping that information relevant to what's actually happening to the tree. I don't know what how they did that. But they have somebody in the team that they've worked with to they've made it so they can source that information on a regular basis, you know, because it's gonna be put with the trees or in the plantings or something I don't know. But you'll be able to see that tree grow in real life in the metaverse as it grows in real life. Wow. Things like that.  

Keri Norley  And why did they decide to marry? It's like a real life. How are they doing that marrying it to a real life community?  

Miggy Cellis  They're gonna build it. They're gonna build the whole city. And it's just gonna look exactly like it does as the metaverse that they built already. They're just gonna build it. I mean, they've already bought the land out in that country. They've already been out in, you know, Dubai, getting a lot of support. A lot of these villas have been sold on at least all the big ones. I think there's still a bunch of the smaller ones. Right now what they're looking to attract is like businesses and companies that sorry, my long term enough, that need to that want to, you know, have a business in the metaverse and possibly a business in Sofia as well. But yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it's just they're gonna build it in real life. So it's just gonna look whatever however the city looks at right now in the metaverse but they're doing they're doing free demos every Saturday. They're blockchain Valley virtual page on Facebook. We're giving I've been given out free NFT's I just signed up like over 200 people to wax and get them on if T's and  

Keri Norley  I got my get a free NFT for two. I'm very excited to claim.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, it's gonna be crazy. Because yeah, it's gonna be a real city. And so you'll be able to buy them in, build it in the metaverse and then buy land in the real city and build it in the real town if you want. And you know, like, so it's gonna be cool. I look forward to that because they have like real life functionality of it. And that's essentially what these metaphors are gonna be more so than just games. They're gonna be like, games you can play in real life.  

Keri Norley  You know, like, I couldn't explain that more. What is real life functionality mean?  

Miggy Cellis  Like, you can go to a store and buy stuff and have it delivered to your home. And you can  

Keri Norley  reverse so I can go in the metaverse. I can go to whatever shoe store in the metaverse and I can say, I want these shoes and then they will deliver it to me in the real world.  

Miggy Cellis  Right? Yeah, that's idea. Like that's why Walmart's looking at that stuff. Because you don't have to get up you can. If you have a headset or a PC, you can jump online and go to the store, walk around, go to the aisles, check things out, say hi to people or guess if you want and then buy shop, buy stuff, and then it'll be delivered to you or you go pick it up or something like, but in this case, yeah, I mean, it's, you know, that's the type of functionalities that you don't have to leave your home. And you can do things in this Metaverse as well, that will relate to real life stuff. As far as like products and things like that, you know,  

Keri Norley  you could almost try him on, right? Like, it's almost like, if you Yeah, Avatar, I've essentially I mentioned I can't do it now. By like, eventually, the avatar would be able to actually be like life, like real life, like you build view, and then you'd be able to try these things on.  

Miggy Cellis  Right, exactly. And like, I mean, you'll be able to know what they look like, at least and so like, alright, I like the way they look. Because I have this outfit in real life. And, you know, it's just, you know, it's the way to do what we're doing now, but just in a different way, I guess.  

Keri Norley  Wild Wild. Okay, so what are your I want to ask a question you have, I want to know, two different games, your two, your two favorites, which is the most fun game that you have played, been a part of playing. And which one because I know I'm listening, my my audience is a lot of entrepreneurs who are busy. So which is the one that if someone was like a busy entrepreneur who isn't necessarily wanting to sit around and play games all day, but still wants to be part of crypto making money, which one has the least amount of time where they get them the best return? Oh, man,  

Miggy Cellis  the second one is definitely honestly harder to say. Because it's dependent on different factors, you know, there's a lot of variables that come into play. Ideally, you want to invest in something that's easy to access, and not too expensive to get started. Because the thing about a lot of these games is they're still developing. And then real investment is in time, you know, waiting for them to further develop. And but splinterlands is a big example of a good game. Fabian? splinterlands, winterland Yeah, I think the sites like splinterlands io.io, or they would think I think they even have spent on.com, too, but splinterlands they have an app as well, I have a referral link to I can send to you. Yeah, they good. So it has a it has a good structure and a good setup. And it's very easy to access. Cuz like I said, there's an app can download the app, you can sign up for the game, you can play for free, but when you want to start actually earning and like owning the assets, you have to pay $10 for what's called a spell book. And then you can start keeping, you know, the the the characters as NFT's you can start you know, earning for your assets and getting air drops and stuff like that. But it's cheap, send dollars in CZ, and like I said, I log in on your app. And you don't necessarily have to have a wallet because the game runs on its own blockchain on hive. But if you want to integrate other assets on Aetherium, or wax or Tron or finance, like you can, cuz they have it all done on their platform on their website. And it's easy to play. It's just a card battling game that I play the most honestly on the other ones I've a lot of them I've checked out but splinterlands one the only ones that I'm actually like playing like all the time, but it's fun just a trading card battle getting better and battling game, you can rent out your cards people can buy and pay you to use them depending on how they you know their strengths, their rarities, all this stuff. You can sell your cards on the market. The more assets you have like land or packs or cards, or their other crypto that they have, they'll send you SPS token, just on the buy Nance, smart chain, that's one of their main Kryptos that they released. They also have one called dark energy crystal which is on hive.  

Keri Norley  And all those are used usable endgame you just said dark energy crystal Oh my by the way.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, DC. Yeah, it's Yeah, DC dark energy crystal. They also have like an in green credit to like gain credit that is not a crypto, it's not tied to anything outside of the game. So you can't exchange it. You can't, you know, cash it out. You can only use it in the game and there's just called credits. So between the credits, the dark energy, Crystal and SBS, you've got two functional cryptocurrencies that can be used to buy stuff in the game. The binance one can be tradable for other you know, for wax, whatever the Kryptos they can on that smart chain. They do that, you know, per assets. Like I said you can have packs you have land you can have all kinds of stuff and they'll give you your drops, at least right now with the cycles for the next like 160 days like you Think they were doing it. But when you play the game, you know, you can also there's opportunities to earn dark energy crystal and credits, which again, those can be used to buy an F t's on their marketplace. If you want to go rent them, you can too, as well. While when you Yeah, and then you have played the game play. You can earn those tokens. And then you can also do these quests. And on these quests, I think every five you do in a row, you get a treasure box. And these treasure boxes, they can have like different things like potions, credits, and FTEs you know, random stuff, mostly just credits and potions. But every once in a while you get an empty addition to that, the better you do, and the more you win, you'll start getting like overall ranking points. And once you get past I think like bronze two, and you'll get the you're awarded five chests at the end of the season. And each season is like I think like a few weeks to a month long or something maybe like two or three weeks. I think every season so restarts, but every season you have the opportunity to rank up and earn more chests. So you can earn just playing the game, doing the quests, you can earn crystals and our coins to buy NFT's and then you know get airdrops so there's like they have their whole ecosystem really, really structured out. I've had a chance to meet our grown the Creator a few times he's really cool, great guy, and just all that, you know, like real cool structure, because if it's functional in, you know, they it's a good opportunity that, you know, the game is still early in development like this. Still, compared to most regular games. There's not a lot of high use and high high amount of users when you're talking about like, something like Xbox, PlayStation games, you know, things like that. So there's a good investment opportunity there.  

Keri Norley  It's interesting because you said a lot of things in that that I'm going to just pull out for a bunch of people who don't know, techy terms. One is he mentioned, airdrops so I don't think I've talked about airdrops yet. I'm like, I don't remember them coming up in conversation, but in case they haven't, for those of you who are listening, and AirDrop is literally like they just drop your money, drop your internet money. And I have definitely made 1000s of dollars on airdrops over the years. They're fun. They're fun, just randomly received money. That said, for anybody who's listening, there are some dodgy airdrops that happen. So you have to be careful when you start to do these things. Because some people that is actually a scam. So this is part of what we have to be mindful of when we get into the crypto space is to being mindful about our due diligence. And one of the things that Miggy alluded to that I'm going to point out here, he said, I've met the guy who created splinterlands a few times and he's a great guy. So when you start to look into these things, and I remember asking me a couple weeks ago, how do you know what is a great opportunity? Because there are love, okay? Oh, relative. There's a lot of Metaverse, stuff popping up all relative. There's a very few amount of Metaverse, things popping up as compared to what we are going to see over the years. But all of a sudden, we are seeing games, you're seeing meta versus we're seeing crypto tokens, different assets, all these different things are popping up. And so one of the things that you want to be mindful of when you start to look into any of this, if you're starting to like if you're new, it is to go and look at the communities, right look at the people who are involved. Look at the people who are running these communities look at like maybe is doing community outreach type stuff within the blockchain Metaverse things, like when we start to look at the community, Are they active? Are there participants what's going on, because you can see you can see dodgy communities pretty fast, there's a lot of bot activity happening. A lot of people not responding. And so if you are into this, like these are some of the things that you need to understand before you go out. And just trust even anything that the two of us are saying right now. Right, like go out and do a little bit of reading into like, what am I getting into? Why am I getting into this? What's the community? Like? What's the purpose? What's the vision? Because you are ultimately when we start to look at this, you're buying into the communities, and we'll start to see these different meta verses and I imagine, I don't know, I imagine we'll start to see almost like, you know, there'll be the non communities built around things that you know, I can trust, right, so some people might be in the, the bro bros, right? With bread for 20s and then they're gonna be some that are gonna be in the entrepreneurial communities, there's gonna be some they're gonna be the hippie communities and like, all these things will start to develop within their own meta versus online. So you want to be resonating with them, you know, and you want to absolutely feel like you fit into that.  

Miggy Cellis  So I'm glad I managed to be a part of so many people don't realize like, I don't know if they understand like, how many communities I'm a part of, and like, it's like they're giving I mean, in a sense, like how much I like acts as a power I could have, you know, to mean to be a part of so many communities and and and you know gain their trust then you know, guys The Minister has any specific direction and stuff like that. So it's a great opportunity for me to be a part of a bunch of different ones and just kind of see where I could add things to have add value and really kind of also keep myself in check to where I'm not just like taking advantage of the fact that I'm managing so many communities. Okay,  

Keri Norley  so I have a, I have a question for you around that actually, managing communities and trust, right, because here's, here's, I mean, to me, this is what you actually just said, was trusting, right? Because we are trusting humans as much as we right now like this is it's so it's such an interesting thing. This is a very multi layered question and thought process here. I was thinking about blockchain, which equals the ability to actually have trust, because we I'd like to, I'd like to dive into that actually love to have a little conversation on how blockchain equals trust. But then also, we have humans, right, like blockchain equals trust, because actually, it takes emotion and human reality out of an equation, right, which is why we can actually trust transactions happening. And then by then we build these communities, which adds this very human component. And I think it's a really interesting thing as to how we can layer these two to actually build more trust within communities than I think we've ever been able to have before. And so what do you like, can you add into first of all, like, I would love to hear your thoughts on blockchain, how that builds trust, because I know you can explain that very beautifully. And then how this all comes together?  

Miggy Cellis  Um, well, it's a funny thing, because from what I've learned in this space, that when you talk about trust, you don't really hear that word. Often, what you hear is trustless, and verification. When to which, when you actually understand you know, what that really means, in a sense of what it is, then, you know, get definitely get where it is pretty much like the definition of what trust is. So the blockchain is set up. So again, you know, everybody has access to it, you can see it, there's no one entity that can can censor that access part, like shutting off actual internet, you know, access to anybody that has the means can participate with it. Anybody that has the means can build from it, can learn from it, design more, add to it, whatever. And so in the way that we transact and operate, you know, it's given us a factor of verification, and the ability to assess whether or not things have happened in the Senate. It's being run by algorithms and you know, AI. So  

Keri Norley  wait, before you go forward, before we go forward. On a really fundamental level, I'm gonna say this year, Blockchain itself is a ledger, all it does is literally like hold information. So it's like a stamp in time of this thing happened, this thing happened stamp, this thing happened stamp. And so it's a blockchain, because they're linking as it 10 transactions together. So that we now have a block of information that gets linked together, and it becomes a chain. And that is literally it's like the most advanced ledger that humanity has seen so far. And this is how it like, this is how we can then also because you can see it, and like literally in in a very human way to say this. You could take somebody's information, their wallet information, and go put it into somewhere and see all the transactions they made. It's that transparent. So many people think, like this is the transparency of the blockchain. So many people think that there's all this hidden stuff around it. And like, actually, it's the most transparent thing you can see. I could go if if me send me as well, information, I could tell you everything transaction was made from that wallet within the last have forever, forever. Right? And it's so transparent, like, you can't do that to my wallet and like real life in a bank. Right? You know, right?  

Miggy Cellis  No, absolutely. Not like we're.  

Keri Norley  and that's where this comes, this transparency comes in. And one of the things I was listening to you around, like, if we look at, I was listening to this book, I was just telling me before we got on whatever it was called the machine, machine, the blockchain and the future of everything totally recommended by Michael J. Casey and Paul Vigna. And they were talking about how, like our ledger system has has evolved in such a way. And that ultimately, because we have the ability now Oh, things in the past, like we saw a huge we've seen over the years, huge corporations and companies that have like they put forward to the you know, to the powers that be that have this much money, but on their on their books, because a ledger is supposed to be literally like a transaction. And they were talking about how you know, it's just all the transactions, and they will put forward to the government, hey, this is how much money I have, but take off their debt. This is what happened with Lehman Brothers. And they will take off the debt. And so then it looks like they're really profitable, but they're not because the Ledger was false. And this is how it all collapsed. And I was like, oh, isn't that fascinating? Because on the blockchain, you can't do that. You can't just be like, Oh, I want to show you this, but I'm gonna leave this back here in the closet. There are no shallot shadows or skeletons that can sit in the closet on the blockchain. And this is how it becomes very, very transparent and more trusting, because you can see it all right?  

Miggy Cellis  No, it's absolutely true. Because what it's done is really helped transcend the idea of what trust is, and how to apply it. Because now we have this system that's automated, and transparent and immutable, which is important, the most important aspect of the transparency is that it's not just that everybody has access to it, because everybody has access to Wikipedia as well. The problem with Wikipedia is that people can change it, you know, but this one, you can't, you know, the information is immutable. So once it's put out there, it's not able to be coerced. So once people, you know, as fallible as we are, and distressing as we can be, you know, once you've kind of see that process happen a couple times, like once, you know, like, hey, if I send you some bitcoin to your wallet, you're going to receive it, you know, as long as I've hit the send button, because you can check the blockchain and be like, alright, I see that it's sent, and it's in my wallet right now. You know, it can be like, Oh, I send it to you like, oh, no, it was like, Oh, I'm, you know, I must have done the wrong watch something. But, you know, you can check that. So, once you understand that, and you know, that, that the blockchain itself functions in that way that nothing can change that, you know, like, once these factors are met, then what happens on the other end takes place. So, all things are satisfied, you know, and that's the only way for this process and transaction to happen. So like, again, like, it's going to evolve our concepts of trusting each other, because once enough, people really understand that and accept it, once they can engage on blockchains that they can trust and not have to really worry about what the other person's doing. You know, it's like we don't, we can just move beyond that. Because we know as long as we're doing it on this blockchain, and in this way, it's going to happen, you know, that both parties agree, because I one or the other, I don't have to trust you, because I can verify the information, I can find out and know that you lied, you know, that you didn't do what you said. And you know, in the end, that only hurts them on the on in that case. So I like that they call it trustless. Because the domain, that's what that idea feels like is that it's it's involved idea of trust that, you know, for me, I've always been a person that, uh, you know, I've heard a lot of people say that, Oh, yeah, I don't know, hang out with them, because I don't trust them, or I don't talk to them, because I don't trust them, which I totally can understand and get, but it's like, for me personally, you know, it's like, well, I don't really have to put my trust in anybody else. I don't trust anybody. You know, because I trust myself, I trust myself enough to handle the situation in whatever manner I need to, to make sure that I'm okay. And you know, respond as well. So it's like, I can deal with anybody, especially if I know I can trust them. Because I already know I can, in the sense because I know, I'll take care of it myself and handle it the way I need to. So people can be who they want to be, and I can just hang out with whoever I want. Because it doesn't matter if like though, so and so's not trustworthy, because it's like, I don't, I don't care, it doesn't bother me, because they know I'll handle it in an appropriate manner. So that's like, to me is what this aspect brings into an actual formality. That is something that's says that can be systematically used, and then placed into certain things. And even you know, an example to, to live by that, Hey, we should operate in this way that we should be honest and open and transparent. And, you know, do exactly what we say we're gonna do. And so, you know, now with this trustless aspect that we know if it takes place on the blockchain, that it happened. And, you know, I don't have to trust the other party anymore. It's like, it's almost like a little bit of weight off the mind. You know what I mean? Because like I said, you can move past that idea, that band, do I trust them? Can I trust them? Will I trust them? Who knows find out they're either gonna send it or they're, they're gonna do it or they're not. And you're only going to know by the transaction on the blockchain. And if they do it, then, you know, it happened. So it's, again, trust isn't even a factor anymore. It's all about verifiability, what I can prove and what's available, there to prove it on for everybody to see, you know, I'm sorry to call you out on it. I can show everybody and they can all look for themselves.  

Keri Norley  So it's crazy how it's how I mean, you add the next layer smart contracts in and this is where we even get more more into the depth of this. Whereas smart contracts don't understand what a smart contract is. It's how the defi platforms and protocols work by being able to create a contract where I don't have to know the person on the other side. And it just happens with magic on the beautiful webs of blockchain and internets. And there's a contract that's created, and it will execute whether I have an emotion about it or not. Right. And I think this is what's so beautiful about what's coming with this is that it removes that. You know, like if you walk into a bank, and you ask for a loan from somebody, and they're having a bad day, because their mother in law, bla bla, bla, bla, bla, and then whatever's going on in someone's life, because we're all human, right? We all have human stuff that happens. And they're just like, I'm in a bad mood today. Sorry, you don't get the Lord. Right, like how many times has happened around looks the wrong color, or your faces got a purple spot on it. So you don't get it today. But the person who's got the red spot gets it like who knows, because it totally like down to the person who you're sitting across from right. And I know so many people who will say like, they could go into a bank and whatever, and they don't get a loan, they don't get a loan, but they finally find a new person. And then they find the way to get the loan. When we start to look at this, like there is no human emotion there is no like whether I like you or not, whether you're the right skin color or not, whether you're the right living in the right spot in the world or not. Right, you have the right. And I think this is also something that's really interesting, because like 2 billion people in the world, at least, do not have access to banks do not have access to a way to be able to store money. And we give them access, it does not matter where they are because it doesn't matter. A blockchain is a blockchain, no human is a human put your money there, they don't care. There's no emotion involved. And I think it's really quite this interesting piece that we start to look at. That brings us so much more capability and equality, when we remove out, like these intermediary intermediary people who make it their decision, their power trip, whatever it is, money, or whatever they're wanting right, to be able to get that which they desire and end up oftentimes hurting somebody else.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, I mean, it's just the factory of credibility that, you know, in a sense that at some point, every human being is pointing corruptible because of the dependency on which we have, you know, these systems and money, you know, having to live in all this stuff. But now, it's good, because I appreciate, you know, what the blockchain has to offer for that aspect. Because it's just, it's funny, you know, like, we talked about it being in this advanced technology, but it's like, this is really like the most basic function of human interaction of being able to trust each other to do what they say they're going to do, and, you know, do things in benefit for themselves and each other, you know, at the same time, not just one or the other. And, you know, people don't think that's the way that could be live, but it's like, well, that's what brought us you know, this far, and it got us to the point where we could expand big enough that we decided we were too greedy to, you know, live that way. But it's like, you know, it worked. It worked for a very long time. And it works for animals, you know, works for nature, works for plants, works for fish, for birds, you know, works for a lot of things that exist right now that have existed for a very long time. That Hey, we support each other in the system and I'll contribute, you know, to it, and I'll get something from it, you know, to live in have the ability to survive at the most basic level. And at least that's what the blockchain can offers ability. Because then now you just have to look at the other pictures of like, what is needed to do these kinds of things to get everybody involved. You know, well, internet access for one, you know, it was vital. Having connectivity. People in neighborhoods, you know, who don't have the internet, you know, necessarily, or maybe not, don't have phones. You know, I think honestly, phones are becoming more of a common thing than being on the computer. Or the internet at home. Yeah. Like,  

Keri Norley  I mean, like, seriously, I think there are places that do not like they are struggling to get access to water, but those kids have a dang phone on their hands, you know?  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah. And it's not necessarily a terrible thing. I think, like I said, in this aspect to where connecting everybody to the blockchain, you know, you have to have an internet connection. And so, having everybody have access to a phone can mean a lot of things. But it's just a matter of putting everybody and getting them involved. But it's crazy. Yeah, I mean, smart contracts, all this stuff. I mean, it's just, it's just a matter of, you know, mathematics and equations, you create an equation, you plug in variables. And once those, once those needs are met, then the variable you know, is working. Yeah, it's crazy. This job  

Keri Norley  does its job. Okay. So if people are looking to get involved in some communities, what are things that they could be looking for? Like, how would they search for them? And what are the things that they want to look out for is to being like, Yeah, this is a part of a great community that's doing a good thing in the world that I want to be a part of.  

Miggy Cellis  I mean, the main thing is just to be online, being telegram groups, be on Facebook groups, Twitter, Twitter spaces, clubhouse, Discord, you know, anything and everywhere, just you know, look for look for groups where people are talking about things that you might be interested in.  

Keri Norley  Are there a couple of your favorite groups that you thought that you that you'd shout out to? People to go check out?  

Miggy Cellis  Oh, man, so many, three. Well, I would offer my mind's a private community. So it's $5 to get in, but it's just it's cryptic, Krypton telegram. I mean, it has to get to get access. I'd have to you have to hit me up. But can see the Berber when  

Keri Norley  it come in. I want to come in, by the way I want to play and you need to hit him up. Go on. Sorry.  

Miggy Cellis  No, Kansas is an open community on telegram.  

Keri Norley  What is called again,  

Miggy Cellis  I think it's just Ken Bozak. Ken Bozak. And, yeah, Ken bazik Chat. It's on telegram. But he's on Twitter too. He's got a great following. We have the verbose 420 which is on Twitter, in our Discord as well, which you can get to the discord on Berberis 420 on Twitter. The blockchain Valley virtual has a budding community that I'm helping grow. They can be found on their site, Blockchain Valley virtual.io. Their telegram is where I'm helping, and I'm the most active. They do their live streams on Facebook on their Facebook page. Yeah, the other ones are still kind of new and kind of budding. So these are those are definitely my top ones.  

Keri Norley  You know, the other one that I that I that I  

Miggy Cellis  like, sorry, one more. I like Sorry, sorry, the Facebook group one. I mean, it's like 50 has like 50,000 people. And if T club. One of the largest. Yeah, it's like one of the largest Facebook groups. We've got, we just hit 50,000 people. I've been a moderator since I was like 5000 8000 huge congrats. Yeah, the good teams really cool. Just to be fair, warned, like we don't tolerate BS, we will moderate your posts, if we think it looks scammy or looks, you know, kind of lame, I'm not gonna lie, we're very, we can be a little bias. I mean, I can be a bit of a troll too, just to kind of poke people a little bit to either have fun or kind of, you know, keep them from trolling too hard. But fair warning. If you join that club, that's what's gonna happen and it's mostly because of me, I'm not gonna lie.  

Keri Norley  I will actually give a little warning to you because I always like to give warning to newbies who who have no idea what they're doing. And when you start to check out these places on telegram and discord and Twitter, there are people that are not as kind as Maggie and myself, who will probably try and reach out to you at some point in time and try and tell you to go and click something or sell you something or AirDrop you something. If somebody reaches out to you ignore them. If they're trying to sell you something and they reached out to you it's probably a really good chance that you should ignore the hell out of them because they're probably trying to scam you. Just generally speaking, summary because most of these communities will tell you like we will not DM you we will not reach out to you. You have to reach out To us, so like legit, that's your like, number one thing, because I know many people who are getting scammed in these places. Like if someone reaches out to you do not bite, it could look as real as ever. They can also take all of your money. Right? Yeah. Right. So just be mindful as you start to go into these telegram communities and discord communities. That's really where I see Mars, especially telegram. I haven't really seen people on Facebook on our I've had people actually be me on Facebook. I've had this. Someone actually Pedro mine started a fake page, and they started reaching out. So I will tell you guys, if if you ever hear me reach out and like I'm offering some project that you should get into. You probably need to be really careful or like confirm with me. Hey, Carrie, is this really you? Yeah, because I did. I had someone and then somebody actually went and bought into it. I was like, Oh, my God. They're like, Carrie, what is this? And I'm like, What did you do? Don't get out? Right. I don't think he lost money, thankfully. But yeah, just be careful. Be careful with that stuff. Okay, great. Awesome. What else did I want to say to you? Crypto transaction, okay. Yes. Okay. Government adoption. I want to talk to you this. I want to talk a little bit because I loved when we had a chat with you. And I had talked to her last week, around like the way that you think about the bigger picture of this, you know, and we started talking about like, I asked him because last week, I had seen that Arizona was trying to create Bitcoin as its own legal tender. And I was like, how is that even possible within a state, this was the conversation we started to have. And I really love what you were talking about in all of this. And I think it's an important thing that we start to talk about is where we are headed, and how we will start to see more of this become part of our currency in this world. Whether it's from a state level, or government levels, we're gonna see these with central banking, digital currencies. So I'd love to hear like, what your thoughts are around how this is all going to start to play out. And where we see the future of this going,  

Miggy Cellis  ma'am, well, there's definitely been a lot of crazy things happening. Even just since the last time we talked, a lot of there was some things that happen with our own government that kind of really worked in favor for cryptocurrency. I think they overall they said that if you had stuff staking in an account, that was not taxable. And some other event, they basically like reduced some, you know, provisions against crypto and it was, you know, yeah, it was actually pretty good stuff that they did.  

Keri Norley  Capital gains for us to transact is what you're saying?  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, I think I mean, I forget what it was. But, you know, the biggest thing about it was that, you know, the direction things were going is that the contesting against you know, large entities such as, not only the government, but, you know, the Federal Reserve, which operates on its own, you know, accord with its in its own system, outside the government, central banks, you know, that the same that stand to lose a lot, you know, by switching gears in the way that we are not in totality, because, you know, we see a lot of and trying to get involved, but it's just, you know, there's a lot of big things and big issues, you know, when considering all these entities and all these projects, because there's just been things that have happened, you know, like, with Ross Ulbricht, who are mentioned, I think, last time, like, you know, he started Silk Road and all, you know, things were done on Silk Road that he did not moderate or control. But he ended up getting multiple life sentences in prison, you know, and this is somebody who didn't, you know, I don't want to say Nestle broken laws, because I imagine he broke a law loss. But, you know, like, to be given a double life sentence, you know, for free, not for nonviolent crimes is insane. In any aspect for any reason, you know, we talk about the justice system, and what a joke it is become, how bias it's become, that here's this guy sitting in prison, because he started a platform that was completely decentralized. Nobody, you know, controlled any content or moderated it, people were freely able to access and sell and buy and do whatever they wanted, as means of their own exchange. Nobody forced them, you know, they were just enabled, you know, to do that outside of the government's reaching, which, you know, is common things do happen, you know, that are not so, I guess, acceptable. But, you know, for him to have to suffer in the way that he has for doing what he did, you know, is not just a statement to his actions, but a statement against what was happening was that he created a marketplace that was outside government control, not just physically because you see these things happening in real life. There's the black market for a reason. You know what exists, the CIA has been caught in situations, you know, with drug peddling music or real stories and real examples, you know, nothing made up. But we see this tap, this thing happens that anytime the government doesn't get a cut of money, you know, things like this take place. And that's usually the only factor in most of these cases that it's like, Hey, if you're not paying the government, and even if you're doing shady shit, you got to cut them something because if you don't, you get a double life sentence in prison, or you disappear. You know, what I mean? Like, or your life is destroyed, your credibility, your jobs, everything is taken from. And so, you know, that's a big deal. So that's still the game that's being played, like, That hasn't changed. You know, I appreciate seeing these, these new changes to their and litigations and stuff, because at least tells me they're responsive enough to what's actually happening is that, I think we're at a crucial point, where the community has to decide, you know, whether they're going to participate or not, because, because the more people that get involved, even, especially brands and companies, the less, the less opportunity, the government will have to really have, you know, laws made such as, like, when they're talking about NFT's as security issue, masters, you know, issue with national security, you know, like, that's a big deal, you know, to declare that, because like, that would definitely cut off access to all of us to a lot of things, even when people were like, again, making a way of life by selling and buying in a teaser. But now, as we see entities coming up, you know, things at the Superbowl, now they're doing stuff with NFT's, you know what I mean, there's a lot more people getting involved. And so to flip to do to do that, would be very hard and work against them, because now they're losing again, an opportunity on money of their own, their cut. So it's crazy, because that's the world we live in, we live in, you know, a world where, you know, you can be idealistic, and go too far. Because once you get into an audience, and people start listening to you, and it starts affecting, you know, the, what the government is able to receive out of it, and they things like this, like engine, oil industries, banking industries, like people's lives are on the line 100%, you know, like, a lot of us, you know, the reason why I got involved with it, because like, it wasn't really just about making money, it wasn't about getting rich, in the sense of just having a bunch of money, it was more participating in a system that was going to change, you know, way we interact economically, and just being involved, you know, at the beginning of it, so that way I can benefit from that growth. But in a way of like, the only way would we actually make have values if everybody was a part of it. And so, for me, it was like, just, it was about this my life, you know, just living me and just being able to be in a place where, you know, I didn't have opportunities other than what I made for myself. And it was very hard in places where the systems are not designed for people like me to, you know, benefit from. So with the blockchain, it was different, you know, like you said, like, is there isn't was not much and it was completely unbiased. But yeah, just, you know, there's a lot of games being played, and some of these games, you know, are very directly affecting people's lives. Even we just saw now, the government just seized billions of dollars worth of bitcoin from these guys who stole it from by Nance. Now, I can imagine how much man like if these guys don't get, you know, like, by life in prison, it's gonna be kind of weird, because like, you know, here, these guys stole billions of dollars with a Bitcoin. And who knows what, what's gonna happen to them. But now our government is controlling $3.6 billion with a Bitcoin in addition to what it already had. So now, I think, you know, it'll be interesting to see these laws, because I think, from what we known as an oppressive, very biased, extremely violent government, and system will have to change and adapt because those things are not going to work anymore. But it's going to require more people participating and knowing that that's where the main value is that it's not just, you know, it's fun in games, but it's like, we're really trying to impact the way we live, and the way we socialize. And, you know, people are dying for it. Like, it's crazy.  

Keri Norley  Yeah, so I it's and it's amazing. So my question for you is, like you've said it a couple of times that it will impact the way that we do so many things and the economics and that kind of thing. So where do you see it impacting the most Where do you see this taking us in the future?  

Miggy Cellis  I mean, I think overall, the biggest changes just is going to be the way we socialize. Because a lot of that is dependent on the way we transact. You know, the way we pay for things the way we The way we invest our money or our time, our idea of value, you know, compared to something physical, you know, I think a lot of these concepts will change, because now we're putting our faith and value into something that's extremely digital. It was not tangible, even within a tease, you know, without actual physical things, these are all just numbers in in air. And so I think subconsciously, it'll change the way we interact. Because like, again, all these are factors in the way we socialize with each other, the way we talk to each other, the way we engage with each other, you know, like, our money has a big, big effect on that and how we operate in that system. So again, I think, as these concepts start to change, and we start to really changed the way we transact, it's going to change the way we engage, as we see it, now we see these crypto communities, how different things are becoming, because we're, again, going back to the old ways, where it's just like, hey, doesn't matter what race, religion, you know, whatever. All that matters is that you know, you come to participate and add value. You know what, it doesn't even matter what you want out of it. Like, if you want to make money, and you don't want to help, that's great, just come help, as you'll make money. You know, if you want to help, great, you'll help and you'll still make money. Like so much value can be reciprocated. And doesn't matter what your end goal is, you get what you want, but you still have to give and participate. To get.  

Keri Norley  It's an I think there's a there's a lot of it, to me, that's an equalizer, you know, because it takes away so many of the biases that we have, from country, you know, upbringings, all that kind of stuff, to be able to transact across borders to you know, I think it's gonna change a lot like to me, I get excited thinking about the fact that we now have a way to exchange borderless, you know, currency borderless, which, in and of itself is amazing. But then when we start to bring in Dows, and we start to have these communities that we can then govern that are also borderless in country, like we can have people from around the world within these communities being completely governed, totally decentralized, and having their own currency to go with it. You know, and using other people's whatever it is, and it just to me, like it completely shifts the way that we run the world. Because we can have this full decentralization versus relying on these corrupt systems that are inevitably there for themselves to make more and more and more and more and more, more money. So yeah, it's interesting. There's something that just came to me that I wanted to say, too, because you mentioned something about just now on by Nance that there was billions of dollars stolen. And I wanted to say something because I was hearing today, listening today about something actually, I think it was that book. And they were talking about 400. In 2015, there was a woman in the UK, I'm gonna forget her name. And she's like, she's high level, you know, security type person, I'm, you know, working in some insurance, high level insurance thing, right. And we're talking about insurance fraud. And in She stated that in two 2015, there was $400 billion of fraud $4 billion of fraud in within banking and businesses like through internet fraud, right? Oh, yeah. And so it was like Lloyds of Lloyds, there was underwriter, the insurance. And so it was the insurance company stating this, right. And I and I looked, I was like, No, I did look it up. I was like, Well, no, that's a couple articles. Yes. All right. I'll, I'll have a little bit of trust to this. And and I thought it was really important because a lot of people here like when I heard you say that, I was like, Oh, we're gonna go no, don't do this. Because right. But like, the reality is like across the board, there's fraud that happens everywhere. Right? Yeah, that's happening across the board, whether we are in this in this fiat currency, or whether we're in the cryptocurrency space, people are greedy, no matter where we are. Right? People are going to find a way they want to find a way. The thing that I want to say, though, is that when we start to talk about the blockchain space around being hacked or being fraudulent stuff, it's oftentimes not because the blockchain itself got hacked. It's because there was something somewhere that either somebody gave them access to a wallet or they somehow managed to get into something that you actually gave them access to. That's how they actually got the money, not because the blockchain didn't do the blockchain job. Right,  

Miggy Cellis  right. Yeah. No, I mean, people are very fallible, so they make very many mistakes. You know, it's easy, especially when space where it's still brand new to a lot of people and, you know, if you don't understand how really works at a programming level, then it can be very difficult to operate in this space safely. If nobody's there to tell you, you know, like, Hey, these are the things you should look out for. And keep in mind, you know, because the minute somebody has access to it's like, they can do whatever they want. And I think there are a lot of the cases is mainly with access issues, and, you know, more on like API's or like front end issues of like integrations with the blockchain, or user error, you know, getting into,  

Keri Norley  right, forgetting to keep the passcode safe.  

Miggy Cellis  Right, are leaving a browser open, like, somebody posted a picture, that they took it that somebody else took at a hackathon, just to prove a point, like, you know, not to leave the screen up in, no one attended, because, like, they took a picture of it. And so from that picture, they're able to access a lot of things. It's crazy. People are smart, man, it's insane. Right?  

Keri Norley  It's it is. So I just wanted to say that because, you know, people, people have a bit of a like, Oh, my God, I'm not getting into it, because there's so much fraud, and there's so many people who are getting their money stolen, but it's like, it's actually user error. And this has already happened across the board.  

Miggy Cellis  And this mostly people who are just, you know, wanting to get rich really quick. And you know, they don't really they don't see the opportunity to make a lot of money really fast. And so they just, they overlook certain things or take, you know, trust and things they shouldn't just because they're willing to make money. Right, like sometimes Yeah,  

Keri Norley  right. Okay, so back to we didn't actually get to Arizona, Texas. So actually, even since then, when I when you when I actually said you were like things have developed, I was like, oh my god, India since then this has only been a week, you guys, we literally spoke I forgot about them. This is Tuesday, the eighth we spoke on the 31st of January, which was Monday last week, in this week. Lots has happened. And India has taken to making crypto legal as well. They are going to tax it, of course, but they're also bringing out their own central banking digital currency. People I want to explain this to like I haven't explained I don't think maybe central banking digital currencies on this yet. But central banking, digital currencies are government currencies. So India will have its rupee. China already has it's one it's already being trialed out in in areas in China. I know America is working on it. There's places in Europe that are already working on theirs. And so the central banking, digital currency ultimately, is the government's way of doing it is not decentralized people. This is not like the blockchain excitement that you want to get involved in. Because they can program like if you got to think about with with any of these assets, they are programmable, that's what they are, it's to coding. So anybody can code this in any way, shape, or form that they want to. And so the government's can code this, not in our favor, but in their favor, so they can code it to be like, right? Once you've hit $10,000 in your account, you can no longer hold more money, once you've spent this much money at the grocery store, you can no longer spend more money there. Once you've done that, whatever they want to do, they can make it so that we can be controlled. And so I think it's really important that we start to look at like, what is happening at these government levels? And how is it starting to because I said, you know, I was curious to me, how is it that a state I'd love for you to explain what you said to me? How is it that a state can take on as a legal tender, because it doesn't make sense, like states are within the US government, right? But already for those of you who don't know, like El Salvador has already taken on as a country bitcoin is its legal tender, which has its own stuff, and people learn how to use it. You know, it's like anything I think when I when I equated it was like when the Euro came in, in Europe in 2000. I was there the New Year that year and I can tell you it was frickin chaos like going to shop going from I was in Spain so going from I can't remember what the Spanish money was back then. So sorry sorry Spain Spanish dollar and to the into the euro. Like we were all standing there like what do I hand to you? I don't know. Right? Like, am I handing you this money this money? What's the exchange? How do I get this back? It was chaos. And so it's like it's no wonder when we start to look at places like El Salvador as they transition over like there's a little bit of chaos because people don't even know what a freakin crypto is nevermind that now they're having to transact in it. So I would love to hear from you. Like how is this gonna start to play out like even now as we start to look in the states how does this work? And how do how do you see this playing out?  

Miggy Cellis  I mean, honestly, mainly just it starts with just getting people educated on you know how to use wallets. Which, you know, you imagine like a say like Texas who's getting involved or at least trying to they've made attempts or making attempts to allow their state banks to have crypto. So, you know, if states were to be more open to doing things like that, where their local banks can, you know, host and hold as a crypto wallet as well give access to people to buy and sell it. And also, we don't have the added functionality of it being insured by the FDIC that, you know, as a way to get people involved, because right now is a matter of access and ease of ability, you know, being able to use this on a functional level, and, you know, say like, Texas has a lot of their very own resources, you know, that they could use as a backing to the value of cryptocurrency, getting involved with mining at a state level, you know, and encouraging the people in their state to use that crypto on that same blockchain, you know, enabling people to do it having allowing merchants to accept that, you know, like, very little thing, very easy things that can be done in little ways.  

Keri Norley  I love what you were saying, I love what you're saying last week to around how, like, if the government was mining Bitcoin, then they get to have their own income. And then they have to explain that because then you were saying like, and then and it buys into, then it actually creates its own?  

Miggy Cellis  Well, it's like, you know, in a matter of taxation, where it's a big issue, because there's no accountability for what the government's doing with that money, and a lot of that money just kind of disappearing, and even the imbalance of you know, what class wealth has to pay, what percentage of taxes versus you know, other other classes and stuff. But, you know, we've had a discussion that, I mean, it's, it's not necessarily like a failsafe plan, but there's an idea that, to replace taxes, you could just have, you know, the government's mine at a big level, you know, like a warehouse level industrial, where they have gigantic things of miners, and, you know, encouraging people within that state to use that same blockchain, they'd be able to capture, you know, a huge portion of fees that were being associated with each transaction. So instead of having to have people paying the taxes all the time, and every year, it literally just be, you know, their fees being associated with each transaction that every time they did something they pay, it would pay something, and even those could be waiting itself for itself. And it can be, you know, written on a separate blockchain and could be they could create their own blockchain to where like, you have an added feature that, hey, a percentage of it does go to the state, you know, automatically with the smart contract capability. And that way they can use those, those funds functionally for, you know, infrastructure and different resources that are needed and that are covered by taxes. And we would have a way to hold them accountable, and, you know, be a way to know where it's happening with the money and where it's going. But it just be an easier way to, to get everybody to pay taxes without having to actually do anything, you know, just encourage them to keep spending crypto and keep utilizing the system. So that way they can use that money that they're receiving from the mining and you know, reinvest it into infrastructures and things like that.  

Keri Norley  Isn't that amazing? Right? Like, did you guys catch that like that we can actually all just make, we can all actually create what I would say is regenerative wealth or right like, yeah, it just keeps it keeps going up versus the way that it is created now, which is debt based. And so from from the top down, you know, creating more and more debt, printing money that doesn't exist, creating debt, and then taking that debt. And actually, like, when I did that math, it's been a couple of years, when I did the math, a couple years ago, it was something like 140k, don't quote me, per person, but it was definitely 100,000, somewhere between 100 to about 200,000 per person worth of debt. Now, this was a few years ago. So I'm just sitting here thinking because this was before we just printed out trillions and trillions of dollars. So we would be we would be having a shit ton more debt on top of our heads right now, each individual that we did, then, like, imagine that that's not in existence, and we are not full of that much debt. And, and we actually create this, we have this ability to create money that supports the everybody, including ourselves, and it doesn't end us in debt, which I think is such a phenomenal concept.  

Miggy Cellis  Yeah, it's crazy. Because I mean, it's just, it's already set up for that, you know, like, we could already do things like that, like, there's not really much need, there's no need to wait, you know, we especially just starting things in little ways, like educating people and teaching them about it, setting up simple mining processes, you know, very basic things that can be done now. As you know, more people were brought in and more awareness to spread and, you know, to build up to a more functional like global, you know, access but it's just I think we're seeing it you know, we're seeing the government being indecisive on whether or not it wants to participate, you know, and whether or not he wants to control and prevent a lot of people to have access to it. And I think at this point as things is that he's like the NFL get involved. Again, like, as I said, it's gonna be hard for them to say, like, we can't participate in the way we want. So I think they're gonna have to meet us in the middle at some point. But we'll, we'll see. I mean, it's crazy, you know, this is gonna be an interesting year, at least to see where it goes,  

Keri Norley  it's going to be a very, very interesting year. Alright, my friend. Um, I know, we have to wrap this up. So excuse me. Actually, before I before I go to this wrap up, I wanted to say for those of you because we've talked, we've mentioned mining in here, and I hear an objection a lot around mining, which most people don't understand anyway. But I hear this a lot like that crypto is really bad because of the environmental impact. So for those of you who are hearing us talking about mining, we do not have time to drop into this here. But what I do want you to do is go and listen to there is a podcast by Tony Tate. It is somewhere in like the 30s, I think to my upper 20s or 30s on my podcast on the show. And so go and listen to that podcast, because we talk a lot about the environmental impact. And you will be surprised, and I'm going to sit here and say to you just to like sum this up, is just consider how much electricity holding all the banks in the world on a physical level is right, just the physical banks Never mind the fact that they actually have to run internet for all of their internet computations as well, when you just start to that in and of itself. And then you compare that to what's going on with crypto, you will actually take a breath because I can tell you that the banking system in and of itself as the currency runs a shit ton more electricity than then the crypto space does. So take a breath realize it's okay, we're not actually killing the environment. I'm even reading things right now around the amazingness of what blockchain will bring to the environment on the complete polar opposite side of this. And so before you actually go and have like a, you know, we can't possibly get into this because Bitcoin and all these things are so bad because electricity, don't do your research, take a breath, and still come back. Because there's more. Right now on that, please. Do you have anything you would love to wrap this up? Finishing off saying mean?  

Miggy Cellis  No. I mean, it's like I said, I mean, they're already are blockchains that exists that are very carbon neutral and environmentally friendly. I mean, wax is the greenest blockchain out there. And it has some of the highest usage. They just recently minted out and sent out 10 million in empties and they'd leave they leave almost no carbon footprint. Wax stands for worldwide acid exchange their sites like black style. And yeah, they're they're also promoting projects and, you know, helping projects, making teas that are, you know, directly doing things like planting trees and cleaning the ocean stuff or, you know, supportive projects like that. I know for one that there's definitely a tree one that you buy these empty seeds and it'll grow like a real tree in real life.  

Keri Norley  Yeah, I have a friend on here, Virginia that's doing it. He's using a project called NFT's.  

Miggy Cellis  You heard this. Everybody wants to grow. I mean, Duran Duran is in, same thing. You know, everybody wants to grow trees, empties. But he would he's trying to coin the term and have trees. So I'd be careful because Duran Duran Xion is still that name. I just got it. So I know. Well, I know but that everybody doesn't say everybody wants to do stuff like that. So we're seeing more of it already, like people already planting trees. And same with NFT. So it'll be interesting this year to see more of it and have a few projects that I'm trying to get involved into are doing, you know, stuff that are environmentally impactful. Beautiful.  

Keri Norley  Well, thank you, sir. It has been an absolute pleasure to have you on here. Thank you for being here. Thank you for all of your brilliance. Let people know where they can. I mean, I know you've already dropped some community stuff, but let people know where they can find you.  

Miggy Cellis  You can find me on Instagram as @miggycrypto.  

Keri Norley  Perfecto, and he's also barely on Facebook.  

Miggy Cellis  I'm on Facebook as Miguel Cellis .  

Keri Norley  Perfect. Thank you. Thank you for this amazing, amazing conversation. And thank you honestly, I know you guys like me. He said he's everywhere. He's in so many communities. He is dedicating his life to bringing this work to the world. He's traveling all around getting to the different crypto places, sharing this bringing education he is definitely someone you want to follow. He's often sharing about different communities and amazing things that you can be getting involved in. He is trustworthy. And so I would for now.  

Miggy Cellis  Just kidding I'm blockchain verifiable for can go and check them out.  

Keri Norley  And thank you again for being here everybody who's listening. Thanks for having listened to the show. And we will see you again next week. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you love what you heard, please help us get this message out to more people because together we rise, please review it, subscribe to the show and share on social media. When you share please tag me on Insta, I'm @Kerinorley and on Facebook Keri Kaplan Norley is my official name there. Please come and connect with me on social media and say hello I love hearing from my listeners. And thank you so much for your support. I'm so excited to help you bring in the new wealth.