Trauma, birth trauma and nervous system regulation: Conversation with Lesha Nelson

Keri Norley: Hello and welcome to this episode of the wealth AIST podcast. My name is Carrie Norley. I am your host of the show. And today I have one of my beautiful,~ beautiful, ~beautiful soul sisters on the show with me. She started her journey as an occupational therapist in a busy neuro rehabilitation unit with both adults and pediatrics.

[00:00:19] And it was working with newborns where she developed her love for cranial SAC therapy with pregnancy and newborns. I love cranial. It's so amazing. ~Um, ~Um, she ran her. Private body work practice for 10 years. ~Uh, ~she has modalities such as wound work pre and perinatal trauma resolution trauma informed somatics psychosomatics family constellations, emotional clearing, energetic healing, yoga, and attachment theory.

[00:00:41] She specializes in holistic trauma release techniques. Nervous system regulation, techniques, wound healing, and birth imprinting and rep patterning. She believes that when we address these pillars, we restore our resiliency and allow the body to return to its natural state of thriving and pure potentiality.

[00:00:57] Oh my God. I love this. ~Um, ~she totally strives to hold a safe space and container. She's amazing at that. And she offers her body work as well as online somatic coaching, helping women connect to their bodies, guided wo journeys. Process pre and postnatal birth imprints conception, and the nourishment of the nervous system.

[00:01:14] All I'm gonna say is leash has been. Hmm.~ Hmm. ~Wow. Oh, why don't I wanna talk about you to start, as I always love sharing ~my, ~my friends,~ um,~ I met leash when we were at my spiral practitioner training. She was a assistant there ~on the, ~on the experience, the retreat for me, and to have watched you over the last, it's been three years.

[00:01:35] Three, right, right.~ right, right. ~Three years crazy, like crazy. And I'm gonna say this because. For those of you who are listening, like sometimes time can feel fricking forever. And we feel like we're not making any changes in our lives when I can sit here. And I know that you guys or might not,~ not, ~not be looking at leash, but I'm looking at leash and I can tell you what I had, what I know from both of our lives and how much we have drastically changed in our lives.

[00:01:59] ~uh, it is, ~it is because of this work because of the work that she's doing. It's because of the emotional clearing work that we do. It's because of the continual practice of diving into the depths of where we're going to take you today in this conversation, that her life has transformed dramatically. And we have both come from these, like,~ like,~ I'm gonna, how do I even describe fierce

[00:02:20] Lesha Nelson: ~masculine, ~masculine, and not in a good way.

[00:02:22] Unintegrated masculine. Totally

[00:02:25] Keri Norley: masculine. Totally not in a great way. but man, we were out there into these really beautiful softened women who are also in our absolute power. And so,~ so, um, ~I'm super excited to have this conversation. ~And I, ~and I say this because ~you know, ~like all of this, introduce it because wherever you are on this journey, like this conversation is a really important conversation.

[00:02:44] ~And, ~and I say this, cuz looking at least three years later and knowing,~ knowing, ~how much this type of work has changed our lives,~ um,~ I invite you into wherever you are. Like don't give up, don't give up, like there is a transformation in front of you, right? ~Mm-hmm ~Mm-hmm so well. So actually, I don't think I said your name, so welcome to the show.

[00:03:01] Miss Alicia Nelson. It's beautiful to have you here.

[00:03:04] Lesha Nelson: thank you for having me on. It's been a, it's been a long time in the making

[00:03:09] Keri Norley: ~yes, yes, ~yes, yes, yes. ~Um, ~so let's first start out with, because I know like for me, when I first started learning about trauma work,~ um,~ I used to think. And I think this is common for a lot of people.

[00:03:18] I wasn't like left black and blue and purple and I wasn't hit by cars and I wasn't sexually abused and I didn't have all these big. Huge traumatic experiences. Right.~ Right. ~And like,~ like, ~I had my own traumas, but they were not the way that when I thought of trauma, this is what trauma is, ~right. ~Like I have to be left like at a hospital, black and blue to be traumatized.

[00:03:40] So I would love for you to explain, because this is not what the truth is by the way, people ~, um,~ I'd love for you to explain what trauma actually is before we get into the conversation around it,

[00:03:47] Lesha Nelson: Sure for me, I'm gonna share a little bit of how I ~kind of ~kind of woke up to this. Myself was actually flying to Bali, which you and I went to Bali together.

[00:03:57] I don't even know when that was all the timeline the last three years, but I was reading a book on an airplane about ~trauma ~trauma resolution, and he started to talk about neglect. and went into his own personal story of neglect. And, ~you know, ~you know, not to say that like I was homeless or I was like completely neglected as a child, I definitely had needs filled.

[00:04:22] And there were also some really big holes in my childhood around neglect that I never recognized the ripple effect of that. And I was reading this book going, holy shit, I am dealing with. Some major neglect pieces from my teenage years, mostly. And the ripple effect ~that ~that has played into my life means I'm showing up in the world a certain way, or I have certain belief patterns that are totally subconscious in what felt like out of my control because of those experiences as a teenager.

[00:04:59] And so same with me, Carrie. Like I wasn't beat black and blue. I don't have a history of being sexually assaulted or sexual trauma. ~Um, ~that doesn't mean I don't have pieces in my life that are considered traumatic. And it also is really important for me because there are people that have experienced what I call big tea trauma.

[00:05:21] So these are like sexual assaults, car accidents. ~Um, ~when people. Me talk about little tea, trauma, ~kind of ~kind of those little smaller things. It can sometimes create this, like,~ like, like, um, ~uncomfortableness in the conversations, you know?~ you know? ~So I like to talk about trauma is big tea and little tea. We know from research that trauma has an effect on the brain.

[00:05:44] We know that little T trauma, these little scars ~over and ~over and over and over such as being bullied small, but every day again and again,~ and again, ~and again, it has the same impact as someone who does experience a big tea trauma. Ah,

[00:06:01] Keri Norley: yes.

[00:06:02] Lesha Nelson: ~So, um, ~I also think it's important to share that trauma is not the same as PTSD.

[00:06:06] Those are very different. Diagnoses technically. And,~ um,~ PTSD has certain symptoms, certain things that you have to quote unquote, check off the box last six months or longer in order to be considered as PTSD. Hmm.~ Hmm. ~And so we can have trauma. We can have big TTRA little TTRA and not have PTSD. The two don't have to go hand in hand, we can have traumas and also have PTSD.

[00:06:38] So I like to explain trauma is having one of four aspects or maybe a combination, but essentially our body can't digest. What's happening to. Mmm.~ Mmm. ~So we have an experience.

[00:06:53] Keri Norley: That's such a beautiful way of saying that leash. Yeah. Your body can't digest. What's happening to you. Mmm.~ Mmm. ~Feel that people. Yeah.

[00:07:00] Lesha Nelson: So something happens and we can't digest it.

[00:07:04] And so it might be happening to us. Our body is still experiencing it. It's creating a memory, it's creating muscle memory, it's creating tissue memory, and this is how it gets stored in the body. But we might not be registering it because we're not digesting. ~Mmm. ~And so oftentimes we're not digesting something, because things are happening too fast, like a really fast pace.

[00:07:30] So it's like,~ like, ~I use a cake analogy for this, actually. So if you have a whole cake in front of you and you're gonna digest it, if you're eating the cake like double forked,~ really, really, ~really, really, really fast, your body is gonna be like, Ugh, I can't. ~Right. ~Right.

[00:07:48] Keri Norley: Eventually. Yes, I can't do anymore.

[00:07:50] Lesha Nelson: Eventually your body, unfortunately, you through so fast, you ate too much.

[00:07:54] Keri Norley: Now you're really,~ really, ~really mad at yourself.

[00:07:57] Lesha Nelson: Yeah. Which is the next one too much. You're like, oh fuck. I just had a whole cake

[00:08:04] Keri Norley: too much. I can't move now. .

[00:08:07] Lesha Nelson: This is like gonna make me forget what the four R two, cause this is so funny, too much, too fast, too soon. So you're like, I'm not ready for cake, but I'm going to eat the whole thing.

[00:08:17] Anyway, even though I just had a Thanksgiving dinner so it's too soon. Uh,~ Uh, ~and the body can't take that on and then not enough. And it's like,~ like, ~that's the case of like neglect? It's like, well,~ like, well, ~I actually really do want cake, but there's no cake there for me to have. ~Mmm. ~And so one of those four things is usually happening or a combination, and then we can't digest it.

[00:08:36] ~And then, ~and then trauma. ~Mm ~Mm

[00:08:38] Keri Norley: it's so interesting. ~I mean, ~I mean, I'd like to, I'd ~like ~to just add my thoughts on what you're saying around digest it, because I think it's a beautiful word that I can understand. And I think you understand. But I wanna add to that as ~like, ~for those who might not relate to that word for me digest, it means that you bring it into your body.

[00:08:56] You experience it in your body and you move it through your body. So yeah, like we feel like if something happens like even now, right,~ right,~ you might have some sort of experience that happens. You're like, woo. And your body feels like you feel something like that rush in your body and it triggers something off, which could be the fight or flight, or, you know,~ you know, ~your different responses ~to the, ~to the trigger.

[00:09:15] And then it's in that moment that you can feel it in your body and go, okay, where is this in my body? Let me be with this in my body. And then. Ask your body. How does it wanna move this in your body? Does it wanna breathe? This, does it want to dance this? Does it want to screen this? Like~ Like ~if it has to, right.~ right.~

[00:09:30] ~Like ~Like this is how we move things through and digest it, like at a deeper level of things. And I think sometimes when we catch things in that moment, we can,~ like,~ you can take it and digest it and move it and it doesn't actually then stay stuck in your body.

[00:09:43] Lesha Nelson: Yeah, the word that comes to me with digestion is assimilation.

[00:09:48] Ah, yes. So simulation is one, like you eat something then nutrients take it and it simulates ~the, ~the Veli of your intestines, absorb it and does all this processing and you've assimilated it. So can you assimilate what's happening? Can you make sense of what's happening? And if things are happening too much, too fast, too soon, we can't really make sense.

[00:10:11] Of what's happening and it's not to say I loved your example. It's like,~ like, ~can I feel it? Can I move through it? Can I breathe? There's times where. You might have kids, you might be in a really busy business meeting. You might have a million things going on. And so in that moment you can't necessarily do that.

[00:10:31] Yes. Yeah. But you can do it at the end of your day and have the same results. ~Mm. ~And like before you go to bed, take a few moments, make sense of what happened, maybe process with a partner, maybe do some breath work, assimilate it, move it. And it's not gonna get stored into the body. and also to add,~ like,~ that's not necessarily gonna be the trauma, but it's like,~ like, ~are you having a business meeting where you're constantly taking assault from your boss?

[00:10:56] Like~ Like ~that's little tea, trauma, and over time that's gonna wear out your system. And over time it's gonna be ~harder and ~harder and harder to make sense of it and assimilate that and move forward.

[00:11:09] Keri Norley: Mm.~ Mm. ~Because it gets so

[00:11:10] Lesha Nelson: normal gets so normal.

[00:11:12] and resiliency plays a big role here. That's a word that,~ um,~ you haven't necessarily said yet, but someone there can be two people, ~you and I, ~you and I can experience the exact same experience, the exact same trauma.

[00:11:24] Say a car accident. And let's say where I am in my life. I'm in a really good place in my life. Things feel good. I have a lot of support systems. I can move through the accident and have it not be considered a trauma. I have resiliency for whatever reason I was born that way. And then let's say you, you're in a rough point in your life.

[00:11:45] You don't have a lot of support. You don't have previous resilient coping mechanisms and you don't make it through the car accident as well. And it is traumatic for you. So that's another fascinating piece about trauma.

[00:11:57] Keri Norley: ~Mm ~

[00:11:57] Lesha Nelson: ~mm. ~

[00:11:57] Keri Norley: Yeah. So interesting.

[00:11:59] I would like to take this into one of your specialties, speaking of trauma, because, and I've worked with you in this actually like Le and I've already actually done some birth work together.

[00:12:09] ~Um, ~Um, one of the things that. You are absolutely amazing at is working with wo spaces with pregnancy, with birth trauma. And I would love to hear more about ~ like, all of, ~all of what that is and what that importance of what that is, ~you know, ~like birth, let's start with birth trauma. I was gonna say, like that's a lot.

[00:12:29] That was a really big, that was a big thing. ~Right? ~

[00:12:30] We're gonna start with birth trauma. I'm gonna bring this down. We're chunking.

[00:12:33] Lesha Nelson: OK. ~Um, ~so birth trauma, what I call pre and perinatal trauma resolution. ~Um, ~that's ~kind of ~kind of the more, the medical word. I call it. Birth imprints or birth blueprints. ~Um, ~your blueprint is really, we all have a blueprint of wellness.

[00:12:47] Like we are born whole complete human beings. With the ability to love and just be on this planet ~from a, ~from a heart centered place. That's our blueprint. What happens when we come to this planet and whether it's preconception conception pregnancy or our birth is we can have imprintings into our system.

[00:13:12] And ~you know, ~you know, if it's a birth trauma, ~you know, ~you know, we were just talking about trauma, right? Same thing. If something's happening to you, as you're being born, things are happening too fast, too much, too soon, not enough that gets imprinted on your system. And that imprint overrides the blueprint. And ~so, ~because this is happening to you as an infant, you don't have language, you don't have a frontal cortex that's developed, you don't have that ability to be like, oh, I'm gonna make sense of this at the end of the day and do some breath work.

[00:13:44] It's ~like, ~like, you're an infant. You're completely dependent on other people. And so we as infants, we really tune into what's the caregiver doing? We're totally dependent upon our moms, our dads, so we're tuning to their system. So if there is a birth trauma and ways as a baby are experiencing these intense moments of birth, which the United States, unfortunately we have ~like ~one of the worst rates of birth trauma for our first world country.

[00:14:13] ~Um, ~and the mom is also experiencing trauma of her own. The baby is attuning to a dysregulated nervous system. Mm. ~Mm. ~If the doctors, nurses, doulas, midwives, if they are in the room and don't have regulated nervous systems as well. Like~ Like ~if there's no one in the room, which often is the case, that's tracking the energy, tracking the nervous systems at tuning to regulated nervous systems.

[00:14:40] The baby's coming into the world under really wild circumstances and it gets. It's imprinted like imprint. It gets imprinted in our implicit memory, which is like the memory of the body. It's like the memory that doesn't have a language. And then years later we have an experience or we have a feeling or we have a thought and depending it can come.

[00:15:14] From your birth, your conception, your prep time in utero, depending. Mm.~ Mm. ~

[00:15:19] Keri Norley: Yeah. That's so interesting.

[00:15:21] Lesha Nelson: Yeah, it's ~kind of ~kind of wild. And ~you know, ~you know, I fell into this on a cranial SAC tub table. Actually, I was, in course I was learning in class and I remembered my birth. And I remembered my birth from my body. Like my body remembered my birth.

[00:15:35] Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm~ Mm-hmm mm-hmm mm-hmm ~ and I was like, what the fuck is happening? mm-hmm~ mm-hmm ~ but I ended up going through this whole process of remembering my birth and then choosing to do it differently. Yes. As part of healing, it

[00:15:53] Keri Norley: it's so beautiful. So beautiful. It's interesting cuz you, when you said that, like one of the things that I wanted to bring to this conversation actually is around.

[00:16:02] ~Uh, ~energy being stored in our body. I'm gonna say it that way. And it's come up a few times in here and I thought I would bring it more directly into the conversation ~ Like, ~ ~I, I mean, I~ in that. Like, so I, I mean, I don't know if I've ever said this on here. Maybe I have that I've was a body worker for years. I did myofascial work and, um,~ um, years ~years spent in this ~ um,~ and I think that a lot of people don't understand that we carry.

[00:16:26] Emotions in our body. And I know as a body worker myself, ~you know, ~like when you hit, when you touch points, it will bring an emotion. Sometimes something will touch. ~I mean, if you, ~mean, if you, if you're here listening and you're not a body worker, but if you experience body work, somebody might touch you and you might laugh.

[00:16:39] Somebody might touch you and you might cry or you might not cry cuz you don't let yourself, but you might have the sensation that you might want to cry and or you might want to scream or you might want to do these things. And it's because that's a spot in your body where we stored some piece of an emotion.

[00:16:54] That we have held onto versus releasing it and letting it go. And so this is part of like, I~ like, ~think that, ~you know, where we, ~you know, where we, where we hold our imprints is what you're saying right. Is in our body. ~And, ~and it's magical. Like we,~ our,~ our body is always speaking to us ~and, ~and we can always,~ if,~ if you stop and listen, your body will tell you ~what, ~what it needs and what's going on for it.

[00:17:12] ~Um, ~and so I just think it's a really interesting piece right here to just ~like, ~play into ~like, ~What is your body speaking to you? ~Where, ~where are you if you are in places where you're like, oh, ~this ~this, you know, and I ~ you know, ~think this movement comes so beautifully too. Like this point right here is a little bit sticky.

[00:17:25] What's there. Like, how can I be in that space? How can I release this spot ~and, ~and allowing yourself in those situations to move through whatever shows up for you, because that's the release. ~You know, ~You know, and we don't have to have a, ~you know, ~you know, like leash said, I went, you know,~ you know, ~I was in cranial Sacol and~ and you, ~you went through your birth experience.

[00:17:41] ~Um, ~I definitely have had experiences like that too with myofascial work and like it's powerful, ~you know, ~and like rebirthing through your, the birth canal and going through it again. And,~ um, uh,~ yeah, for anyone who's listening, like.~ like. ~Just play into like,~ like, ~even if you're not seeing or going through these birth experiences, it could just be like ~this, ~this moment of ~like ~like the sigh or Ooh, ~you know, ~you know, like whatever that bubbling thing is,~ like,~ allow it to show up for you and to move it.

[00:18:03] Cuz that's where you'll start to release this. ~Mm. ~Stuff memories,

[00:18:06] Lesha Nelson: memories, memories. I'm like, what's the word?

[00:18:10] Keri Norley: find that word.

[00:18:13] Lesha Nelson: Well, and like,~ Well, like, ~I just shared this story on my Instagram, where I am so triggered and like really working through this really big piece around like self worth and work. and I've always had this like deep ingrained issue around that.

[00:18:32] And it doesn't, it seems like no matter what I do, I can't quite shift it or I can't quite change it. And I was in, um,~ um,~ this little weekend course doing some birth work on myself and I just had this premonition and I called my dad and was like, Hey dad, did you ever lose your job? When mom was pregnant with me, ~like, ~What's going on.

[00:18:54] And he said, yeah, actually I lost my job. Wow. A month

[00:18:59] Keri Norley: before you were born. Wow.

[00:19:02] Lesha Nelson: And your mom was so stressed out and like,~ like, ~it triggered her so much cuz she didn't work. I was the fourth kid. Suddenly here comes the fourth child, no health insurance. This is in the eighties. No ~like ~no income. and we ended up having to move when I was, I think, three months old after being born,~ um,~ because my dad couldn't find another job.

[00:19:28] Ah, And I was like, thanks, dad. I kind of~ kind of ~felt like I knew that, but , it was so confirming because I was like, God, this isn't even my story. ~Like, ~this is just the environment I was born into. And these are all of my mom's emotions that I was feeling eight months in utero. And. The first 3, 4, 5, 6 months of my life was born into this really stressful environment, all around work and money.

[00:19:59] Keri Norley: How fascinating. Yeah. I think it's really interesting here that you actually bring that. Cause let's talk about a little bit about like generational trauma, right.~ right. ~That we carry through and through a wo

[00:20:09] Lesha Nelson: right. Oh my God. Did they bring it together for?

[00:20:13] ~Well, ~Well, we know that, I mean, I~ I mean, ~think maybe not everyone on of your listeners has heard this. When your grandma has your mom in her belly, all of your mom's eggs are developed, which means you as an egg were in your grandma's belly. So That just shows the connection of three generations. You, your mom, your grandma, and how profound that is.

[00:20:39] And we know from epigenetic research, there is so much to play about our DNA and what we feel and what we experience because of our family. And then we're gonna talk about energy again, family constellation work, when I was going through that certification program, which is where you look at a family system as like a whole system.

[00:21:01] ~I ~we were working on stuff generations back beyond seven generations. So everyone says like,~ like, ~oh, seven generations forward, seven generations back in my mind. I'm like, no, we do it. We carry all of it. like we were working on stuff, carrying stuff through a generations years, thousands of years back can show up just how I had that premonition, that there was something around my dad and work.

[00:21:28] ~Like, ~there are things that can happen in the timeline witch wound, for example,

[00:21:33] Keri Norley: that we oh yeah. The witch wound. Ooh. Yeah.

[00:21:37] Lesha Nelson: We feel and show up a certain way today because of that experience. Thousands of years ago, we just do it's in our bodies. Mm-hmm .~ Mm-hmm . So, ~

[00:21:46] Keri Norley: Hey, by the way, for those of you who don't know the witch wound, just the wounds where we've been witches in the past, and we've been burned at the stake, and maybe you've had a little bit of fear of being in your richness.

[00:21:56] because maybe in the past life and some other time you were burned at the stake for being the fullness of who you are in your richness. ~Uh, ~yeah. We still feel that.

[00:22:05] Lesha Nelson: Or you weren't burned at the stake, but in order to not be burned at the stake, you had to hide had no idea how your family line made it through, right?

[00:22:12] Yes. Even if we're not even talking about past lives. Cause again, sometimes it's like, God, there's so much, there's my birth. I prince there's my generational lines. There's my past.

[00:22:25] ~ Um, ~and so coming back to that point of like,~ like, ~just being curious and present about what's here right now. ~Mm. Like, ~if something's coming up in your life, if you're going, like,~ like,~ in your example, Carrie, you were saying like, that's why dance is so great. Or you get into a movement or a position it's ~like, ~we don't have to go quote, unquote hunting for all these problems or all these issues.

[00:22:47] That to me is a sign of feeling like you have to fix yourself and you really don't. Cause again,~ we're,~ we're blueprints. We're already whole. ~And, ~and if you're moving through your life, something's happening, something feels sticky in your body or in your mind. That's where we bring our attention and our awareness.

[00:23:05] And our curiosity is ~like, ~like, okay, what's here now. ~Mm. ~Mm. Let's be curious with this and let's just be open and see what comes up. And it might be this, and it might be, that might be transgenerational who cares. ~Like ~let's just be with what it is.

[00:23:20] Keri Norley: ~Mm. ~So beautiful.

[00:23:22] So how does ~all of this, ~all of this information about trauma and the imprints that it's had in our lives, how is it affecting our lives now?

[00:23:30] Like how do we see this play out in our lives now? ~Mm. ~like, how does it actually also put a pause or a stopper or like ~ um,~ stuff in the way of creating our. Yeah, I

[00:23:39] Lesha Nelson: ~ um,~ think the witch room is a great example. ~You know, ~You know, it's like something happened in the past, whether ancestral or generationally or past life, something happened, you got hurt, you died, you were ridiculed because of it.

[00:23:52] Here you are now. and you're like,~ well,~ well, last time I did that, I died. if you even just wanna keep it in this lifetime, like when I did that as a child, I got in trouble.

[00:24:05] Keri Norley: Or if you're like, one of the things I would like that's coming to me right now is ~like, you know, ~I, cuz this happened to me totally. Like I was painting or doing some crafty thing and the teacher, the art teacher's like, you, you know,~ like, you, you know, ~they wouldn't have said you suck, but basically said you suck ~and, ~and that imprints.

[00:24:17] ~Right. ~Right. And so then that stops us from wanting to be in our fullest expression because when you've been in that state and you're like, I've just been told that I had this beautiful thing that I was so excited about. And. Teacher who I, who idolize because they're, my teacher just told me that I suck. ~Well, ~that's an imprint.

[00:24:31] ~That's a, ~that's a, an experience. Right.~ Right. so, ~and it's interesting cuz ~I always, ~I always said when I was looking to become a mother and this was a big thing for me, cause I was like, I don't want to. I don't want to carry on stuff and see my kids ~like ~repeat patterns. So it wasn't until I actually felt ~like, ~oh, I'm changing things in my life that this feels good enough to, you know,~ you know, and, ~and then I watch all these parents,~ uh,~ I say, I'm laughing at myself for saying good enough right now.

[00:24:52] ~Um, ~and then I watch all these parents ~, um, uh, ~want to like.

[00:24:54] Cotton woo children. And I have definitely tried to do this too. Right.~ Right. ~And like~ like ~protect children and da, da,~ da, da, ~da. And I'm like, but the thing is, or, ~you know, ~you know, I don't wanna, I don't wanna take this part of my life. I don't wanna be in, this is a big one for moms. Right.~ Right. ~I don't want to go live my passion because my kids need me.

[00:25:09] Mm-hmm .~ Mm-hmm . And, ~and the thing about it is that I wanted to give them more. ~Right ~like that. I knew ~that, ~that I wanted to give them that, but at the same time, I was like, I know that I can't control.

[00:25:18] What's that one moment the teacher that says this, the me that says like that generally speaking, 90% of the time, 99, whatever it is, percent of the time, I'm pretty, ~you know, ~you know, amazingly choicey in my linguistics of words, but that time are freak. They. Freaking piss you off and you say something and you go off your head at them because every single mother in the world has done it.

[00:25:37] Don't freaking shame yourself for it, right? Yeah. You don't know which one of the weird and random things, and it could even be something you thought was amazing. Like I'm doing this thing for my kid. And it like landed in them in this way. That was like, oh, I don't want that. That took my power away or whatever it was.

[00:25:54] And so ~I, you know, ~for me it was like this invitation to just be like, all right, I don't know what it's gonna be for them. None of us know any of these places in our lives where we're gonna be like, yep, that's the thing. And ~like, ~now I'm gonna stop you from doing this thing over here, because it might mean that you're gonna have something that affects you later in your life.

[00:26:11] Lesha Nelson: right. Right.~ right. Right. ~And I, I mean that, so that's ~kind of ~kind of like the first part of your question combining with the second is like what's stopping you while it's that time that I was told I really sucked at something and I internalized that and I made it my reality. We may or may not even remember those moments, but they're running in our subconscious, they're running in our body.

[00:26:30] And so I think that's more the like blocks and there's this other concept called,~ um,~ This is an attachment theory word. Good enough parenting. Mm.~ Mm. ~To have good enough parenting, which research shows is really only about 30%.

[00:26:51] ~like, ~like, that's actually all we need in order ~to, ~to be like functional adults in the world. ~Like ~Like to make it right. And so it's like ~I had, ~I had more than 30%. I know that. ~Um, ~and there were still incidences. I'm actually working through one personally right now, where there are incidences that are a big enough thing that someone said, or your mother did, or something happened within relationship.

[00:27:25] Cuz it's usually relational when you're a child. ~Mm-hmm ~. That then creates this pattern or this ripple effect. And so for me, it comes like the thing that ties it all together is regulated nervous systems and attachment styles, really? Because if you are that parent, just remember, as I say this though, 30% , you're that parent screaming at your child every day, because you have a dysregulated nervous system that is going to affect their totally inside.

[00:27:57] Totally is it to say they're gonna grow up and ~end, ~end up in prison. Probably not. And it's like, what do we need to focus on? So that~ that ~that parent can have a regulated, nervous system. So they aren't yelling at their kid every day so that they can have a better relational field and better attachment style.

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:17] Keri Norley: So

[00:28:17] talk to us about nervous system regulation, Madea .

[00:28:22] Lesha Nelson: Yeah. I, what is that?

[00:28:23] Keri Norley: It's a big, it's a huge concept.

[00:28:26] Lesha Nelson: Huge. I was just gonna say, I was like,~ well,~ well, we could talk for like an~ like ~an hour.

[00:28:30] Keri Norley: right. So just talk about like, ~ like, ~what does it actually mean to have a regulated nervous

[00:28:33] Lesha Nelson: system? Yeah, I use the word window of tolerance a lot, and our window of tolerance is our ability to have.

[00:28:42] Regulated nervous system. We aren't hyperactive. We're not anxious. We're not freaking out and we're not disassociated disconnected or hypoactive. ~Mm. ~Mm. So if we think about hypo kind of sitting down below hyper sitting up above. The window of tolerance is the space between the two and there's play within that.

[00:29:09] So meditation sits on this lower end of the spectrum. You're calm, you're relaxed. There might be a touch of disconnecting or disassociation depending on your style of meditation, but you're still in your window of tolerance and still have a regulated nervous system. Play. And the reason why play is so important play is on the high end.

[00:29:34] But it's still contained. Like you're having fun. You're joyous, there's more movement. There's more activity, but you're not tipping up into that. ~Like ~freaked out anxious state. And there's a fine line for kids if you,~ if you, ~if you

[00:29:46] Keri Norley: watch. Right. Right.~ Right. ~And it, it happens in like a split second. ~Any mom knows ~any mom knows it.

[00:29:50] You're like Stu it

[00:29:52] Lesha Nelson: pass the point. totally pass the point. And ~so. ~That's the window of tolerance and my window of tolerance is gonna be different than someone else's window of tolerance. It's plastic, meaning it can change over time. And so really what we wanna make sure we're doing is spending most of our time within that window of tolerance and the way trauma resolution works and the way that regulating your nervous system works.

[00:30:17] When I'm working with people we are playing with, what's called the edge. ~Um, ~or the just right challenge where you're in your window of tolerance, but you're taking something outside of it. And we're holding both at the same time where we're bouncing back and forth between the two in a very safe, regulated way.

[00:30:41] And the more we do that. The more, we start to be able to understand our own nervous systems. The more trauma resolution we have and the wider, the larger our

[00:30:53] Keri Norley: window of tolerance can get. So ultimately with that, what your intention ~is, ~is that we're opening up ~the, ~the tolerance window. So like,~ like, ~if I can just push a little bit past, cause if I try and push past, like at a hundred percent, I'm gonna go into complete burnout.

[00:31:05] If I try and push past at ~like ~5%. Then my body can handle that ~and, ~and we can stretch it.

[00:31:11] Lesha Nelson: Yeah. like a really simple example as I was,~ um,~ with a friend who has a 18 month old and we were meal prepping, we decided to get together and make food. And her toddler was in the sink. ~Uh, ~basically just like having bath time playtime while we were cooking, I'm like super energy conservation woman.

[00:31:29] And so this whole time we're cooking, the water's running. Which disregulates my nervous system in the background. Cause in the background I'm like, oh my God, we're wasting so much water right now. and then the other part of me is ~like, ~this is great because her child's occupied. She's having fun. She's in play.

[00:31:49] And so what I'm doing is I'm meal. Prepping is I'm leaning into like,~ like, ~this is really uncomfortable for me. I'm gonna breathe through the fact that we're wasting gallons and gallons of water. When we live in a drought in Utah, and at the same time, I'm gonna lean into the fact that I'm here cooking with my friend and her.

[00:32:06] Toddler's having a really good time. And that's gonna expand my window.

[00:32:12] Keri Norley: It is that's my edge. It is, ~you know, ~you know, it's interesting. I think this is a huge piece. I know I've been traveling through it a lot, and I know many people on the planet right now with all of the, if we look at the global, ~you know, ~agendas and the global things that are going on in the world,~ um,~ and with all the intensity of what's happening in the world right now, ~you know, I, ~I, I feel there's been so many people who've had.

[00:32:30] Like, how do I be in the contraction of what's going on in the world, but also the expansion of ~what ~what's here. ~Right. ~And there's so much, I like, I don't know. I don't know anyone who have been speaking to lately of our friends,~ like, you know, ~like, you know, people in,~ in, ~in circles and things that,~ um,~ That don't have these two polars running almost the same time.

[00:32:47] And I think this is part of, for me the, ~Hmm. ~This has been a really huge thing for me ~in the, ~in the overcoming the tendencies of bipolar stuff. ~Right. And I, and I, ~and I really wanna speak to this year because I think it was a big mindset shift in my world of if I swing these two extremes, right.~ right. ~I'm really high.

[00:33:04] And it can be really high in pleasure, ~you know, ~and anxiety. Or whatever, and it could also be dropped down until like complete Nutter leg. I just wanna stay into my bed and never get out. ~Right. ~And so for me, it was never like, cuz I remember when somebody said to me, Carrie, it's not gonna necessarily be something that, ~you know, ~you know, I could have gone had medication ~and, ~and done it that way.

[00:33:22] For me, it was like, how do I regulate myself and be able to live in knowing that I can hold all of this. ~right. ~And so for me now it's like my tolerance window is actually probably, I would almost say lessened. In the way that I,~ I, I, ~do my work to keep it from going to extremes so that I can actually hold, oh, okay.

[00:33:42] I'm in this part here. That's actually really uncomfortable. And I'm in this part here, that's really full of joy and I can feel it all and I'm not gonna go and explode and I don't have to take it out on another human being and I can just be with it. And the more that I can actually sit with it and in the experience of it versus actually try and avoid it.

[00:34:00] Or fly into it with a complete Nutter unaware, right.~ right. ~Cause that's what I would've done complete Nutter unaware. Then I have a more regulated, nervous system because I have to hold, I have to in order ~to, ~to,~ um,~ hold it all right. And I meet my kids totally differently. Totally differently. And even when I do the things, ~I mean, ~I mean, it's so minimal now compared to a dysregulated nervous system that just ~like ~goes freaking off your face.

[00:34:27] ~Right. ~And honestly, any Mon Mosier, any parent that's here has done it. ~Like ~, I'm sure. ~Right. Um, ~but ~like, ~I think it's a really interesting piece ~to, ~to really say with is like, how do we, cuz we all have all of. ~Like, ~we all have all of this within us. And so it's never about avoiding what's in it. It's about how do we actually be with it and be okay with it

[00:34:45] Lesha Nelson: totally.

[00:34:46] And the way of the world because the world is so crazy right now. So many people have never learned this skill. So many people have not learned ~really, ~really how to regulate their nervous system. There's something called the Fox or the fake. Window of tolerance where you think you're in your window of tolerance, but you're actually not because you've been so dysregulated that when you think you're regulated, you're actually not even regulated.

[00:35:12] It's true. It's true. And that's a hundred, you live and we're two years post a pandemic. We're at wars like the world's crazy. And so,~ so, ~so many people right now, this is what I'm noticing is they're like they're trying to live their life, how they lived their life five years ago or 10 years ago. And. We can't ~mm-hmm ~mm-hmm we can't anymore because everything that's happening is so much more chaotic.

[00:35:40] And we haven't learned how to be in our bodies or learned how to be in our nervous systems. And so the antidote to that is to slow down. I know, and to like~ like ~minimize the outside noise. Get a little bit what I call small so that you can start to actually heal the nervous system and understand what your body's doing and understand your window of tolerance.

[00:36:07] And at first it sucks. ~You're like, ~you're like I'm supposed to be getting better and I'm doing less, but we have to go to that place of less first to really learn these like core, core things that we didn't learn as children.

[00:36:22] Keri Norley: Yeah, I totally relate to this because my journey for sure, over these last couple years has been working on so many different levels of my experience, the mental, emotional, spiritual, what I miss energetic.

[00:36:33] Right.~ Right. ~And it was probably, well,~ well,~ we started talking about this about six months ago and ~and I, ~and I think this is really powerful to say here, because at this point, It probably was about six months ago when I started to really dive into nervous system stuff and think about it a lot more and attachment work and all that kind of thing.

[00:36:49] And,~ um,~ It was it a place where like my brain was starting to from neurofeedback, like we could see that the numbers were like, they're holding ~your, ~your brain is getting better. It's stabilizing. Like you're doing the thing, ~your brain's ~your brain's doing a good job, Carrie. And I'm like,~ well,~ if my brain's doing a good job, Carrie , why am I still in this struggle with certain things?

[00:37:05] ~Right? ~Like, why is my mind still looping? Why am I still feeling anxious? Why? Like my brain isn't sending that then at some level, because. Like my brain's stable. It's not telling it like that I'm freaked out. ~Right. Mm-hmm ~Right. Mm-hmm so what's in me then what's the next piece. And that's when I started to realize cuz like I could still feel this anxiety that was still like, it was a constant, I think this is what you're ~kind of ~of talking about in that fucks, ~you know, ~thing ~and I'm, ~and I'm gonna say this and you can correct me, but it was like a constant, just underlying.

[00:37:32] It was ne it wasn't necessarily ~like. ~Oh, my God, I can't do anything, but this constant underlying like ~Mmm. ~Anxiety. ~Right? ~And so for me, it then came to how do I call my nervous system? And I knew, especially with the work that I'd been doing over the last few years, all the stuff that I've done with the books and the podcast and the work, and, ~you know, ~you know, like I'd been running so fast and all of a sudden I was like, Slow the fuck down.

[00:37:52] mm-hmm,~ mm-hmm, ~ slow the heck down and just be, and it took me like literally going, you have to just be, there's no reason that anything and like the timelines that I could put on myself or the pressure that I could put on myself. And sometimes it didn't make any difference to ~how, ~how long the output actually.

[00:38:12] But the pressure that I put on myself to meet the output made me like, oh,

[00:38:20] but we I'm, like, I was so much better. Then I ever had been, and I could hold these pieces now. I was like, okay, I can learn how to not lose my shit. right.~ right. ~I got that piece. ~Right. ~And I could hold these two, but then I couldn't quite shift that. And so I would love for you to talk about, because this was huge.

[00:38:44] ~I mean, ~I mean, it was only what two weeks ago, this post came out that I actually understood what you were talking about with co-regulation. And I was like, Oh, and I realized how much I had done this over the last year to co-regulate in different places. But I would love for you to talk about the importance of this, because I think this is like this huge link that I'm like, Ooh, really important in being able to then go and regulate when you're in that place.

[00:39:06] You're

[00:39:06] like, I'm doing it. I'm here. I'm holding these things, but I still feel like UN unregulated. I still feel, eh, Yeah.

[00:39:13] Lesha Nelson: Ooh. I feel like from what you just shared about your own personal experience, and also to recognize that no one nervous system is the same, so no one experience and no one resolve or no one way is gonna be exactly the same.

[00:39:29] I feel like. The reason why a lot of people don't like to do this work is because it's uncomfortable. So you got to the point where you're like my brain's healed, but I still have this crazy level anxiety sitting at the surface. Most people get to that point and it's so uncomfortable. That's where they stop or that's where they quit or that's where they're just like, no, and I don't wanna do this because this is,~ this is, ~too much.

[00:39:54] This is too much too soon, too fast, too uncomfortable to sit in this level of anxiety. ~So, you know, ~So, there's a couple different ways to work with that one. ~I, ~I think, and I'm learning more of different kinds of plant medicines that can help with that. I do think that having a guide that has the capacity and has the understanding of trauma resolution and nervous system regulation is really important.

[00:40:21] ~Um, ~I also feel like seeking out somatic coaches, somatic ~therapists, ~therapists that have the understanding of how the nervous system works and ask your questions. People like. When you go meet a therapist or when you go talk to a coach and if this is what you wanna work on, ask your questions. Cuz a lot of people say they do nervous system work or they do these things and ~they, ~they really don't, not in the capacity that you might~ might ~might need.

[00:40:49] in your case, Carrie, finding someone that has a regulated nervous system, working with someone that does have a regulated nervous system, someone that has. That understands it or has experienced it so that they can ~kind of ~kind of walk you through it. ~ ~

[00:41:04] Keri Norley: ~it's, ~ ~like, ~ I think for me, and that's what I was saying.

[00:41:05] ~Like ~Like the purse basically said a few weeks ago was exactly what you just said was basically like. Unless you have a regulated nervous system to meet your nervous system. Doesn't know how to actually be different because it's the experience it has. So until you've met the regulated nervous system, your nervous system will continuously play how it's playing.

[00:41:24] And so what I started to realize when I started thinking about this just in the last,~ like,~ I don't know, 24, 48 hours was around how many people have shown up in my life over this last year that have been the most grounded. Totally regulated humans. And I'm like, of course. And then I just go and like,~ like, ~ah, okay.

[00:41:41] Ah,~ and,~ and it show has shown me each step of the way. This is how it's supposed to feel. This is how it's supposed to feel. Carrie , ~you know, ~

[00:41:49] Lesha Nelson: it goes to that like example from the baby, from the birth trauma, where everyone in the room is dysregulated or baby just had a trauma and mom was dysregulated.

[00:41:58] And so they attune and become imprinted at a dysregulated nervous system. The same is true for our regulated nervous system. So if you're with someone and I love the saying whatever the strongest energy is in the room,

[00:42:12] Keri Norley: That's where the energy will go.

[00:42:15] Lesha Nelson: Mm-hmm .~ Mm-hmm ~. So if you walk into a room or if you meet a client and you have, even if they're spinning out of control and they're in this very anxious space, if the other person is holding stronger than that, a calm, grounded, regulated, nervous system.

[00:42:32] This person that's spinning outta control is just gonna eventually be like,

[00:42:37] Okay. All right. Okay. And they attune to the stronger energy. And so, I mean,~ so, I mean, ~really, that's why doing nervous system work is so important to me because if we have more people in the world with more regulated, nervous systems that have the stronger energy ~mm ~mm everyone's gonna start attuning to that stronger energy.

[00:42:59] And what's happening right now. Are the people in power and the people that the news show and the way that we move through the world is we're at tuning to people that are completely dysregulated and highlighting all the leaders. ~All the, ~all the bullshit right now is highlighting people who do not have regulated nervous systems.

[00:43:18] And so what do we,~ we, ~we attuned to that. That's why I don't watch the news.

[00:43:24] Keri Norley: right. Absolutely.

[00:43:25] Lesha Nelson: Like I don't need their nervous systems dictating my nervous system. No. ~Mm ~I'm not open for that.

[00:43:32] Keri Norley: ~it's, ~it's interesting. It actually makes me think of protection of nervous system and like being mindful of where you put your, where you put yourself, ~you know, ~you know, like there are places that for sure, you may be like, I don't, I just, you just feel like I don't wanna be there.

[00:43:43] And so often, ~right. ~right. Then you might pass through that and you'll be like, why did I go? And you'll feel like really uncomfortable. And you came home and it's probably because you were in a room with people whose, you know, nervous systems. Weren't

[00:43:52] Lesha Nelson: our bodies known our bodies. Know if there's a part of you.

[00:43:56] That's like.~ like. ~Something's weird about that person. ~I mean, ~I mean, of course it's an, also an opportunity to be like, what's triggering me. What's here. and if there's a part of you screaming red light flashing. Don't hang out with that person. Don't go to that event. Don't go in that room. There's usually a reason why, like our body knows, and it's really hard to listen to what our body knows if we're not in a regulated state.

[00:44:24] Mm.~ Mm. ~

[00:44:24] Keri Norley: So can you share maybe a couple to wrap this up a couple? ~Uh, ~tips, ideas, ways that people can,~ uh,~ even just at home now start to play with regulating their nervous systems. And, and yeah,~ And, ~

[00:44:36] Lesha Nelson: for me, what opened the door for me is meditation. And I started meditating when I was in graduate school and was spinning outta control.

[00:44:46] Really stressed out, convinced I was gonna fail out of my second semester of grad school. It was a really rigorous program, lots of science. And so I started sitting down to music, playing music and visualizing myself graduating three years later. That's what I would do for meditation. And at the time, I didn't know, like meditation was even really a thing.

[00:45:11] And,~ uh,~ I got straight A's that semester and was like, ~right. Like, ~okay, I was fine. And I recognized like,~ like, ~oh wow. When I sit down every night and put on some calm music and just sit here and imagine the things I want. And I'm just with myself, I feel better. And then fast forward years later, when I read a book about meditation and got really into meditation and started to understand what it really is doing for the brain, what meditation does for the brain is,~ is, like, ~like, Literally brain changing life, changing what it does.

[00:45:42] So I always tell people to meditate and there's some resistance people are like, yeah. And other people are like, yeah. So.~ So. ~That was my doorway in to the nervous system regulation. There's other doorways in there's breath work. ~Um, ~there's working with practitioners, working with other people that,~ um,~ have regulated nervous systems and understand this like coaches, therapists.

[00:46:04] Body workers, certain types of I'll be

[00:46:06] Keri Norley: recommended, highly recommended

[00:46:09] Lesha Nelson: yeah, like mild fashion, cranial SAC. ~Um, ~Um, but if you're at home and you're like, I can't go anywhere, ~you know, ~I'm home. I have lots of kids. ~like ~set a timer on your phone three times a day. And when that timer goes off, stop and be like, what's my body doing right now?

[00:46:28] What's my mind doing. Am I racing? Am I disconnected? Am I in my body? Where are my thoughts? Where's my breath. Where's my heart rate. And just start to be like, start to be curious, like what's happening right now and start to pay attention. And then once you do a, check-in just take a few moments to breathe, or like~ like ~take a few moments to squeeze your shoulders.

[00:46:55] Give yourself some squeezes ~like ~touch your face. ~Mm. ~Mm.

[00:46:59] Keri Norley: Touch your lips,

[00:47:00] Lesha Nelson: lips release, oxytocin, touch the back of your neck and massage, like~ like ~right where the skull meets the neck. ~Mm. ~Mm. Just take a few minutes and ~just, ~just pause. ~I mean, ~I mean, this really doesn't take that long And then go on with your

[00:47:13] Keri Norley: day. ~Mm. ~I will say I've had this practice for about nine months now. I have alarms that go off on my phone and the middle alarm says, how do you feel? And if you've listened to this podcast long enough, there have been a couple podcasts where it has gone off in the middle of the podcast.

[00:47:27] So you've probably heard it. ~And, ~and it's for that exact reason,~ like,~ it's just this check in point to be like, how am I feeling right now? ~Like, ~what is happening in my body? Do I need to do anything ~to, ~to. Service my body ~right. Like, ~right. Like, do I just need to have a breath? Do I need to do I need to have some water?

[00:47:40] ~What ~what's going on? Like for me, because we can be so outwardly to everybody else and doing,~ and doing, ~and doing, doing,~ doing, doing, ~doing, it's just like this moment in the day to be like, let me check in with me.

[00:47:50] Lesha Nelson: Yeah. I'm gonna bring my orientation to internal and just be with whatever it is. And an acronym I love to think about is funny enough is called coal.

[00:48:03] C O a L totally blanking, who this comes from. It's a meditation teacher. That's well known, but curious, open, accepting, loving. Mm.~ Mm. ~Just come in. You're curious. What's here. I'm open to whatever's here. I'm gonna accept. What's ever is here and I'm gonna love whatever is here. ~Like ~if it needs a little bit of love.

[00:48:25] Great.

[00:48:26] Keri Norley: I swear that could be an entire show on that. it almost feels like horrible to close there. Cause I'm like, that's so true. If you take that, if you take that into yourself, but also into every other communication that you have, your life will change.

[00:48:39] Lesha Nelson: Totally. Your life will change. It will. It totally will ripple effect.

[00:48:44] Maybe it's all about the ripple left.

[00:48:46] Keri Norley: ~Mm. ~All right. Miss leash. ~So. Uh, ~how can people find you in your amazingness? and honestly, anyone who's listening, leash is amazing. She does do this work. If you are wanting someone to work with,~ I,~ I highly recommend her. ~Um, ~we didn't even get really into ~the wooy ~the wooy the wooy work.

[00:49:00] I shouldn't say wooy it's woo work people because other people might not know what wooy is. homework. ~Um, ~and least it's just magical. So how do people find you if they want ~to, ~to work with you?

[00:49:10] Lesha Nelson: Thank you, Carrie. My website is my name Leisha nelson.com. I am way more active on Instagram than Facebook. You can kind of~ kind of ~find me on Facebook here and there, but I'm really fun on Instagram and I offer all sorts of free content.

[00:49:23] ~Um, ~Um, you can sign up for my newsletter. I don't bombard you. I send out like really yummy, juicy. Newsletters. And I have a fun podcast called nurturing resilience where people share their story of resilience. So any one of those places is a great way to connect with me and find me, mm.~ mm. ~

[00:49:44] Keri Norley: That reminds me, I'll come and play on your,~ um,~ podcast too.

[00:49:47] We have to remember to do that. ~Um, ~Amazing. Amazing. Amazing, amazing,~ Amazing, amazing, ~amazing. Thank you so much, leash. ~Um, ~this has been such a beautiful conversation. I am so grateful for anyone who is listening. This was a lot like it was a really big, deep conversation. There was a lot in here. We are both like, obviously I am not the trauma slash nervous system person.

[00:50:05] I am just on my own journey. And leash has been a ~beautiful, ~beautiful support for me. ~Um, ~and. If you have any questions or reach out to me, reach out to Alicia, we will do whatever we can to support you on this journey and ~to, ~to help you find the resources that you need to be able to do this because,~ uh,~ it will change your life.

[00:50:23] Lesha Nelson: does change your life for sure. Mm.~ Mm. ~Thanks so much for having me on today, Carrie.

[00:50:27] Keri Norley: Thanks. My pleasure leash. And for everybody else, we'll see you next week.